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Dale

Russian Roulette!

26 posts in this topic

Or the "What the hell is Putin up to?" Thread!

 

- Russian subs in the Arctic and Baltic.

- Russian air incursions into Eastern Europe.

- The Russian Pacific fleet bearing down on Australia.

- Putin cosying up to China at APEC.

- Russian long distance bombers off Mexico.

 

Cold War back in action? Or diversion to stop the West looking at Ukraine?

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IMHO, a "diversion to stop the West looking at Ukraine." It's no coincidence that all these incursion, feints, etc. are occurring while Russian tanks, artillery and "volunteers" and flooding across the border into Ukraine.

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Yeah I would agree.

 

But I'd like to hear the DC viewpoint. Calling Arnelos? :)

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- Ukraine invasion

- Russian subs in the Arctic and Baltic.

- Russian air incursions into Eastern Europe.

- The Russian Pacific fleet bearing down on Australia.

- Putin cosying up to China at APEC.

 

...are just a diversion covering an impending nuclear bomber attack on Mexico.

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:Thinks of tacos: :dunno: I'm not getting anything.

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Disclaimer (AKA - Covering My Ass): This is all my opinion and mine alone. No way is it tied to the DOD. I am not in any way involved with dealing with Russia and their crap. All my knowledge comes from following along in the news just like everyone else.

 

It's Russia trying to flex their muscles and remind the West that they are still a Great Power. Now I don't necessarily believe that they are but that's what this is about. Putin is extremely arrogant and wants to return Russia to the Glory Days™ of the Soviet Empire so he can go down next to Stalin and Lenin. The Ukraine situation started out very similarly to Georgia. Kazakhstan needs to be getting very nervous because Putin has made some comments that are similar to what he made before the Russians started focusing on Georgia and Ukraine.

 

As proof of the arrogance of Russia, they flat out deny that they have been providing material support and sending their own military forces into Eastern Ukraine. Clearly we know they are. The US has an incredible intelligence satellite constellation. Of course we're monitoring their troop movements and can tell when they go into Ukraine but still the Russians deny it.

 

The worst thing about the entire Ukraine situation is that the world does little. The Russian-backed separatists shoot down a civilian airliner with hundreds aboard and nothing is done. Russia annexes Crimea and nothing is done. Russia supports separatists to continue a civil war to exert their own political wants on a neighboring country and nothing is done. Economic sanctions that are nothing more than a slap on the wrist is not enough. Serious economic punishment is needed. Yes it's going to hurt Europe but it's going to hurt Russia more. A lot more. Also, France needs to suck it up and not deliver the two Mistral ships to Russia. I think NATO needs to step up and purchase them for their own needs. Already NATO itself has several aircraft that are utilized by multiple countries. Having the Mistrals would be an excellent addition and also taking ships originally going to Russia and instead going to the alliance built to counter Russia is fitting in the situation and also very symbolic.

 

The good thing to come out of all this is that many Eastern European nations are looking even more to the West. They are all aware that they could be next. Probably not to the point of invasion thanks to most of them being NATO members but they could definitely experience clandestine political and societal instability created by Russia. Also for the first time a majority in Sweden and Finland say that their countries should pursue NATO membership. While it's not a vast majority it's even more of a sign that the world is turning away from Russia even as they try and increase their influence. Unfortunately form them they went about it through bully tactics and most countries are turning to us to stand up to the bully.

 

As long as Putin is in power there will be cold relations and contention between Russia and the West. Unfortunately for us, baring some sort of medical problem we are stuck with Putin for a long time. Democracy in Russia is a sham. We need the world to stand up to Russia because the lack of a real response so far only emboldens Putin to continue with what he's done so far. I've read a few good articles comparing Russia's actions to those of Germany in the '30s. No one stood up to Germany then and they just kept going. I'm not saying we're on a road to WWIII, I don't see it ever getting to that point. However, Putin will not stop with Ukraine unless we all firmly say no.

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Yeah I would agree.

 

But I'd like to hear the DC viewpoint. Calling Arnelos? :)

 

I don't have a damn clue. DC is indeed seemingly obsessed with Putin of late (aside from being obsessed with the election), but I've been too busy with the electoral politics of late to pay it any attention. I was working 80+ hour weeks leading up to the election and have been trying to recover my sleep and sanity since.

 

The only thing I'd note is that opposition to Russia has finally become something of a bipartisan point of agreement, which is extremely rare in DC these days: Republicans and Democrats don't agree on much anymore, but they DO agree right now that Putin needs to be opposed across the board.

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The only thing I'd note is that opposition to Russia has finally become something of a bipartisan point of agreement, which is extremely rare in DC these days: Arnelos and BigD don't agree on much anymore, but they DO agree right now that Putin needs to be opposed across the board.

 

Fixed. ;)

 

In all seriousness, I do like seeing the news out of the G20 where Putin was snubbed by just about everyone there. That needs to continue and as I said, the world needs to do more than just talk... they need to actually focus some pain towards Russia and make them pay for what they've done.

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Disclaimer (AKA - Covering My Ass): This is all my opinion and mine alone. No way is it tied to the DOD. I am not in any way involved with dealing with Russia and their crap. All my knowledge comes from following along in the news just like everyone else.

 

It's Russia trying to flex their muscles and remind the West that they are still a Great Power. Now I don't necessarily believe that they are but that's what this is about. Putin is extremely arrogant and wants to return Russia to the Glory Days™ of the Soviet Empire so he can go down next to Stalin and Lenin. The Ukraine situation started out very similarly to Georgia. Kazakhstan needs to be getting very nervous because Putin has made some comments that are similar to what he made before the Russians started focusing on Georgia and Ukraine.

 

As proof of the arrogance of Russia, they flat out deny that they have been providing material support and sending their own military forces into Eastern Ukraine. Clearly we know they are. The US has an incredible intelligence satellite constellation. Of course we're monitoring their troop movements and can tell when they go into Ukraine but still the Russians deny it.

 

The worst thing about the entire Ukraine situation is that the world does little. The Russian-backed separatists shoot down a civilian airliner with hundreds aboard and nothing is done. Russia annexes Crimea and nothing is done. Russia supports separatists to continue a civil war to exert their own political wants on a neighboring country and nothing is done. Economic sanctions that are nothing more than a slap on the wrist is not enough. Serious economic punishment is needed. Yes it's going to hurt Europe but it's going to hurt Russia more. A lot more. Also, France needs to suck it up and not deliver the two Mistral ships to Russia. I think NATO needs to step up and purchase them for their own needs. Already NATO itself has several aircraft that are utilized by multiple countries. Having the Mistrals would be an excellent addition and also taking ships originally going to Russia and instead going to the alliance built to counter Russia is fitting in the situation and also very symbolic.

 

The good thing to come out of all this is that many Eastern European nations are looking even more to the West. They are all aware that they could be next. Probably not to the point of invasion thanks to most of them being NATO members but they could definitely experience clandestine political and societal instability created by Russia. Also for the first time a majority in Sweden and Finland say that their countries should pursue NATO membership. While it's not a vast majority it's even more of a sign that the world is turning away from Russia even as they try and increase their influence. Unfortunately form them they went about it through bully tactics and most countries are turning to us to stand up to the bully.

 

As long as Putin is in power there will be cold relations and contention between Russia and the West. Unfortunately for us, baring some sort of medical problem we are stuck with Putin for a long time. Democracy in Russia is a sham. We need the world to stand up to Russia because the lack of a real response so far only emboldens Putin to continue with what he's done so far. I've read a few good articles comparing Russia's actions to those of Germany in the '30s. No one stood up to Germany then and they just kept going. I'm not saying we're on a road to WWIII, I don't see it ever getting to that point. However, Putin will not stop with Ukraine unless we all firmly say no.

 

Germany, France, and the rest would have to agree to roll the panzers too, and that's not going to happen.

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Why so pray tell? I thought you voted out the total embarrassment.

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Abbott had the perfect opportunity to prove we should be with the Big Boys and that we're all grown up during his opening speech of the G20, and instead he whinged about how he was having so much trouble getting his $7 Dr's levy through Parliament, and bragged about abolishing the carbon tax. Firstly, the G20 is NOT a platform for domestic politics, and secondly (regardless of my own personal view on climate change) he let the perfect opportunity to attach himself to the US and China by bragging about abolishing the carbon tax. Now that he has publicly done that, he is completely unable to connect with the Big Boys as they sign climate treaties. This will leave Australia in the corridor whilst the US, China and anyone else who attaches to those agreements make the REAL world decisions inside.

 

The bottom line is, whilst Abbott is in power, we will never be invited by the Big Boys to climate talks (ie: missing a MASSIVE opportunity to discuss on the highest levels of the world stage) and he has proven the theory that Australia is still a highly domestically parochial Government and not ready to play on the world stage. We will remain being led, not leading. *sigh* And all because of his god damn stupid G20 speech.

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And in fact, I'm joining this movement that's sweeping through Facebook right now.......

 

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Oh and then there is the entire Ukraine thing. He was presented the perfect opportunity to become one of the long term leaders in the response to the Ukraine over MH17. He went on national TV promising to "shirt front" Putin at G20. But he backed down. All he had to do was bail up Putin in a corner with a TV camera and it wouldn't have mattered what Putin said, even talk over him, demand answers to MH17 and ask a very pointed question or two on Ukraine as a whole and he would've been an instant world hero and suddenly a defacto leader on Ukraine.

 

But instead he decided to do nothing.

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Only can go uphill from here. Be positive! ;)

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Only can go uphill from here. Be positive! ;)

 

I'm absolutely positive he f'ed up. Is that positive enough? :)

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No doubt. My point is that having scrod up so completely, undeniably, and with such complete disregard of the forum in which he spoke/acted (or lack thereof in regards wimping out with Putin) anything he says from here on out could only be an improvement. Oh that if I had such a chance. Whatever military ground capabilities proud Australia can boast would be heading for the Ukraine, me among them, and i would dare the Chamberlains of NATO not to follow, the p*****s. If Australia led the way on moral grounds against an aggressor, it would be political suicide for larger, more powerful nations not to follow. What a great thing that would be for Australia and the Ukraine. But no. ****. Life goes on, and from this dismal start the only way is up because it can't get much worse.

 

Can you imagine the outcry in the capitols of NATO if Aussie troops were engaging for the sake of democracy? For t h e i r freedoms? Can you? Hell I'd go on my own to support them. I mean at least we speak the same language, somewhat. Oh yeah, I'd go, in a heartbeat. Old sick fart that I am. Sometimes one must say, "You shall not pass" and lay it all on the line for freedom or forever be obscure and ill defined, ungrateful for the sacrifices that made you free, or unaware which is worse. This clown could have reminded us who we are, and done the right thing, but no.

 

Where is the Churchill of our age? Oh yes, this was an opportunity and I agree amigo, it will never come again to this blowhard politician. Maybe Belgium will lead the charge. :D But lets be serious, there is only one... Australia.

Edited by Lancer

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As demonstrated by Abbott's dwindling rhetoric against Putin, he doesn't have the courage to make such a bold move unilaterally on the other side of the world.

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Well maybe you won't have to go so far to stand up for liberty Pi, as the Russians seem to be doing you the kindness of coming to you. :) Lucky son of a gun, the best totalitarian aggressor I can hope for these days are the Chinese. Rather inexperienced compared to the Russians...

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