Ysop37

Saladin: Why do thee suck so much?

9 posts in this topic

Before I'll be beginning my little rant (;)), note that I asked the exact same questions and made the same suggestions as listed here in this thread also a couple of weeks ago at CFC. I just felt that I had to tell you about my bad experiences with Saladin so far and how he is one of the most complicated leaders when it comes to winning a game with him. Also, I'll be giving out my two cents on how Saladin could be improved with just a few minor tweaks. So here it goes:

 

God, I hate Saladin. Just quit a game with him, not because I was losing -- I was doing fine, three shrines and the largest empire -- but because it was just so damn boring. I could either slog my way to a domination win like fifty games before, but slower because I'd get no help from traits or UU or UB, or I could get up to a dozen cities, go turtle and chase a Culture win. Oh, the wild excitement!

 

It's not just me: Saladin is consistently ranked as one of the least favorite leaders. And it's not hard to see why. He has one okay trait and one weak one, a kinda lame UB, and one of the dumbest UUs in the game. And there's little synergy between his traits, starting techs and UB beyond "try to found a religion, get a prophet, build a shrine, repeat."

 

So what would make him more interesting?

 

One thing that comes to mind: increase the Camel Archer's retreat possibility to 30%. This would raise it from a crap UU to a so-so one, and you'd have the interesting possibility of adding a GG for a 90% retreat chance.

 

Another: get rid of the silly Camel Archers altogether and give him a real UU. How about a melee unit with a retreat possibility? Or Archers with a movement of 2?

 

The Madrassa... I don't know what to do with the Madrassa. I mean, it's basically Egypt's UB, except it comes a lot later. And because it's later, it's not nearly as good. That's because (1) Great Prophets are spiffy in the early game, but unless you have founded an unusual lot of religions, by medieval times they're much less interesting; and (2) by the time you're building Madrassas, there's a good chance you have some Temples up and/or you're close to getting Caste System online. So if you really want Great Prophets, you can probably run Priests anyway, making the Madrassa worthless.

 

It does give you 4 culture instead of 3, which IMO elevates it from "almost completely worthless" to merely "kinda lame".

 

I dunno. What do you guys think?

 

Ysop

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The Madrassa is a great building.

You can run priests and/or scientists with it; so, get a shrine, change the specialists

when needed and have until 4 almost from beginning.

And what Caste System can do about priests?

And Spiritual is very good,too.

Best regards,

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Camel Archers are AWESOME! If you got stuck with no resources, a couple of Flanking II Camel Archers will cause 'Collaterol' Damage as they have a 55% chance to retreat as well.

 

Flanking II CA V.S. Combat II Knights? Both will win by attacking, but Flanking II CA has less casualties (and less War Weariness~)

 

Protective means that instead of 2 Archers, 2 Axemen and 1 spearmen for early, post REX defence, 3 archers and 1 spearmen would do, saving 45 hammers per city!

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I tend to agree Ysop on this one, i wouldn't be picking saladin for his UU. Camal Archers are a sorry excuse for a knight in my opinion. Like noted above CA's do have higher retreat odds but it isn't drastic enough to make me say "I would prefer a CA over a knight." I do disagree with Ysop on the Madrassa issue. Madrassa's are geat buildings that help Arabia spam great people on any map-type. Early scientists are HUGE and can change an entire game.

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Byzantium is the definition of a better Arabia. Same start techs, IMP instead of PRO, and a good Knight replacement. THe UB is plain delight.

 

It's almost literally impossible to argue that Arabia is better than Byzantium in CIV. The MAdrasse (Plural Madrassa if I'm not mistaken) are the only arguing point you could give, and even those aren't that great

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I agree. Whenever I get Saladin on random I restart. Just can't stand playing him. :yawn:

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Byzantium is the definition of a better Arabia. Same start techs, IMP instead of PRO, and a good Knight replacement. THe UB is plain delight.

 

:confuse: Huh?

 

You get a Theatre replacement that can't run any Artists and has Horses as a bonus happiness modifier instead of Dye. How is that a plain delight? The Hippodrome is grossly underpowered compared to the Theatre IMO. So much so that I modded the ability to add Artists back in just to make it useful.

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The Madrassa is a great building.

You can run priests and/or scientists with it; so, get a shrine, change the specialists

when needed and have until 4 almost from beginning.

And what Caste System can do about priests?

And Spiritual is very good,too.

Best regards,

 

ahhahahahaha

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:confuse: Huh?

 

You get a Theatre replacement that can't run any Artists and has Horses as a bonus happiness modifier instead of Dye. How is that a plain delight? The Hippodrome is grossly underpowered compared to the Theatre IMO. So much so that I modded the ability to add Artists back in just to make it useful.

 

Well it is situational, like everything in this game. I usually need the happiness more than the Artists. I usually make up for the lost artists with (hmm. Haven't played in a while, so can't cite a building. But..). The 5% happiness if the delight of me being happy that my citizens are happy without me selling my soul and iron to Mansa Musa. I've been able to make some sizeable cities fairly easily with Hippodromes if I have health, which in the end is probably better than the lack of artists. I usually have horses more then I have dye so it works out. Not to mention the inherent happiness you get from the Hippodrome* is already better than the Theatre's bonus.

So it may not be the best culture building, but it's much better for happiness, which I usually care about more.

 

*According to CFC. I haven't played in months so I don't recall it in-game and have no idea if this is a mistake.

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