Argroww

Caveman2Cosmos

132 posts in this topic

O.k., might as well get some of the options hammered out...

 

Map Settings: I like the C2C_Planet_Generator_0_68 script

- Map Size: Standard or Large, depending on how many real players we get

- Map size overide - Default -> use selected map size

- Continents - FT Random (1-5 continents) -- [Default is FT 2 to 5] {Can have a variety of Random selections as well as regular set numbers up to 18 continents}

- Continent Separation - (recommended) Min 3 water tiles -- several setting, depending on map size and if you want early or later game contact. 2 Random selections

- Continent Distribution - (default) Smart Selection -- don't really understand this, but I think it is about where on the map is the continents and how close to equator

- Continent Shape - (default) Unpredictable -- snaky to round with differeent things between

- Continent Scattering - (default) Rare Small Islands -- dfrom no islands to many

- Percentage of Ocean - (normal) More than 60% -- from less than 30% to more than 90% with Random selection, too.

- Land near Pole Ice - (default) sometimes --Never is the other option

- Lonely Islands - (if possible, default) 3 Islands -- several settings here.

- One Tile Islands Allowed - (default) No -- Yes or Random

- Mountains (Peaks) - (default) Some Peaks, Groups up to 5 -- Ranging from None to Extreme with different groupings..Random Option but doesn't inclue the extreme for that

- Hills - (default) Normal Hills, Groups up to 2 -- Few to Many Hills with different groupings..Random Option

- Climate Variation - Normal -- other options range from Drastic to Very Soft with a Random option.

- Humidity - Normal - Wet to Dry options with a Random

- Temperature - Normal - From Extremely Cold to Extremely Hot

- Flood Plains - (default) Standard Placement - Also different levels of Any Terrain, with one of the options allowing them to spread(??) and a Random.

- Resources are a Standard Generator although there might be more options, depending on what is selected on the rest of the map script.;

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Last game went poorly, the Canadians attacked me with the biggest SoD that I have ever seen, they rolled through my empire like a hot knife through butter,

 

GO HABS GO!

 

(I doubt any of you will get this. Be interesting to see.)

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Nope...don't get it.

 

As for the map options I'm not fussed, I haven't used that map much, I had heard (not sure how true it is) that some maps use scripts that can result in the game running slower, my current large map seems to be running okay, but then at Warlord difficulty I am not massively ahead of the AI, I am significantly ahead of the nearby AI though...but not enough for a major offensive, I have light swordsmen and last I checked it still had stone axemen....on the other hand crime is so rife in my empire that most of my citys are taking a massive happiness and finance penalty :-(....still built a few courts and stocks so hopefully the crime rate will start coming down.....but at 100% research I'm loosing almost 100 gold per turn!

 

Not sure if thats due to the standing army of about 17 light swordsmen I have or the cost of the civics themselves....nice to see that even though I've dropped down 1 grade in difficulty from Noble I'm still having issues, makes the game not quite a cakewalk as it appears on Chieftain.

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Last game went poorly, the Canadians attacked me with the biggest SoD that I have ever seen, they rolled through my empire like a hot knife through butter, sure they took a few losses, but not as many as I did and for some reason they were in no mood to settle for peace.....C2C on Noble apparantly can be pretty challenging.

 

Like This??

schlock20050619b.jpg?1297712543

schlock20050619c.jpg?1297712543

schlock20050620.png?1297712543

schlock20050621.png?1297712543

 

From http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-06-19 and the two days afterwards

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Other Options to discuss:

 

For one thing, the Victory Conditions. There are 3 new ones: Religious; Scientific & Mastery. From what I understand about the Mastery one, if is a more complex Domination, but then slelecting it keeps you from doing any of the others?? I've played with all except for this, as for one thing, I'm still learning it (when I've got time to play...)

 

 

Now, there are the other Options.

 

- Advanced Start - OFF (going to be starting Prehistoric)

- No City Razing - OFF (want to be able to raze if need be)

- No City Flipping from Culture - OFF (especially while during the mist of a war, hate haveint to retake a city every other turn...)

- No Barbarians - OFF (want some Barbs)

- Raging Barbs - OFF (barbs yes, but not raging...especially with BUG/C2C, just too much Barbs)

- Agressive AI - I sometimes play with this on, but haven't in my learning C2C games

- Unrestricted Leaders - With the new additions to the Civ/Leader availablility, this isn't needed. Plus, some of the older leaders have different and newer traits.

- Random Personalities - I play with this at times, makes more interesting, but then the C2C version might be even more interesting, don't know.

- Choose Religions - Choose the religion you found, when you get the conditions for founding a religion. I keep this off...

- No Tech Trading - Off ( I like to be able to trade, especially if we have some AI players).

- No Tech Brokering - On (can trade, but no saturating of the market)

- Perminant Alliances - I would rather have a team play than do that so Off

- Always War - OFF, if we do Minor Civs, can have than until we get to Writing anyways... this is a Human to Human or Human to AI thing

- Always Peace - OFF (borrringgggg....)

- One City Challenge - OFF (although, it would make for an interesting MP game).

- Perminant War or Peace - OFF - Includes the AI to AI wars

- New Random Seed on Reload - ON if Pitboss and OFF if PBEM - supposidly, there is an exploit, depending on the type, but if were all honest, don't need to worry about it...

- Lock Modified Assets - OFF (only in SP games anyways)

- Requires Complete Kills - Have to kill every unit, etc....OFF

- No Vassel States - I'm either or on this, especilly with the new things in C2C, likely on for this game

- No Tribal Villages - OFF (Me want HUT!!)

- No Random Events - OFF (C2C has some interesting additional Events)

- No Espionage - OFF (C2C has also expanded this)

 

Some of the more nteresting C2C game options:

 

- Barbarian World - might have this on, the Barbs get one city for every Civ in the game, so with 9 Civs, would have 9 Barb Cities, too.\

- No Revolutions - C2C mod thing that I haven't been able to explore. Might have on if explained a bit more about it

- Limited Religions - Can't found a new Religion if already has a Holy City (if even captured??)

- No Inquisitions - C2C allows for Inquisitor Units and the purging of non-State Religions in the cities. Works well with the Revolution Option part.

- No Barb Civs - If off, allows the Barb Citis to actually grow into possible rival Civs (spawning new civ in the game). Again, might be interesting.

- No Tech Diffusion - if on techs will not slowly diffuse to civs that are behind....Is this different than a research bonus due to number of known civs that have a particular tech? And will it work for the Human??

- Start as Minor Civs - ON -- Can't do any Diplo with anyone until Writing and automatic war until that time, too.

- Multiple Production - ON -- If you have the hammers to build 2 items in your build queue, then you can get more than one thing built on that turn. I love this option!!

- Multiple Research - Off -- Like Multiple production, can get more than one tech in a turn if you have the required beakers. Normally, your not going to have any times that this might happen, but it can happen, but because it's so rare, I'm for it being off...I can wait a turn..

- Usable Mountains - ON -- Allows the use and travel on Mountains/Peaks, with the proper techs.

- Surround and Destroy - OFF -- Allows bonus for surrounding an enemy, can see benifits but makes me feel like divide and conquur to me (defeat in detail)..

- Advance Diplo - ON -- C2C Expanded Diplo

- Unlimited Wonders - OFF -- removes the limit to number of wonders in a city

- Barbarian Generals - ON -- Allows GG points for Barb Combat, but the Barbs can also get a Great General...

- Assimilation - ON -- C@C has different builds for different cultures/civs/leaders (expanded UB/UU's) and if you capture a city, it can still build it's UU/UB's for that culture.

- Final Five - OFF -- removes the civ with the lowest score every 50 turns (on Normal speed). I'd rather vote them off than have them removed due to being the "weakest link"

- High to Low - OFF -- an SP only Option

 

There are more options, but I wanted to get this part posted before it gets lost...

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Sure you got the right file there Nugog?

 

Sure did.

 

Deleted the unzipped files last night, and unzipped them again. It is working now - dunno what happened.

 

All I can say is OMFG - this mod looks awesome - will take a while to get used to everything.

 

What game speed do you recommend to play this on? I mucked around with it on Normal speed last night - seemed way too fast for all of the options.

 

The only other thing I would maybe have a bit of a gripe about is the animals - they appear alot. Got a bit "grindy".

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Mastery is effectively the "It isn't over till the fat lady sings" setting, end game is the final turn for the game length, otherwise score is based upon your ability to achieve in all the criteria rather than choosing to end the game when only 1 has been hit (conquest or space race for example)....for this reason the score screen doesn't show any detail till about half-way through the game....this would mean that if a player did manage to achieve a conquest victory, they would still have ot play until the final turn to get their real score....although there wouldn't be much point.

 

For the most part I'd agree with what E_T has suggested.

 

A note about tribal villages....there are island now too, goody huts on coastal squares :-D....annoyingly the game highlights these wen wanding around with a scout type unit, even thoguh they cannot actually get to them...

 

Barb world....not tried it, mind you the barbs can saturate the map enough anyway without giving them more of an advantage!!

 

No barb civs, whilst interesting has been known to be unstable, I have read in several forums that it has been the cause of CTDs, something to do with how the game converts the "barb" civ into an an actual AI civ and an issue with the tech tree I think....not sure if it's been fixed now, but clearly having the setting on will have a greater impact on the computers performance later in the game due to having more civs to deal with, I tend to keep this option off....but more due to stability issues rather than not liking it.

 

Revolutions aren't C2C, it's part of a mod component that is pre-C2C's existence, to put it simply it places a greater importance on keeping your civ balanced in all ways and opens a whole new world of pain irrelevant of the difficulty setting. If you do not look after your people wisely, they might decide to break away and form a new civ, often taking half your empire and a large number of troops, sometimes that new AI will also be at war with you immediately, so you have an enemy sitting on your doorstep with all the same stuff as you...and if you weren't careful it may be more than half your empire!......not 100% certain, but I believe it's still a bit buggy, it;s actually from a stand-alone mod called Revolutions (funnily enough) that for some reason became a popular addition to many other mods...anyway I wouldn't recommend it for a MP game...not sure it's even compatible (due to some of the new interface functions).

 

Limited religions I always have on, I like the idea that the first religion I discover is mine, then that's it, especially considering that the religions offer unique buildings and/or units one player (human or AI) managing to discover several religions can hold too much power and deny it to other players....perhaps a little more realisitic too, how many "civs" have followed several faiths?

 

Start as minor civs....always use it, there's something more fun about having to wait until Writing before you can enter diplomacy...both civs need the tech to be able to communicate (via ingame diplomacy, chat is still allowed!)

 

A little of my own opinion and a little further explanation from me there, otherwise as said in the beginning I'm happy with what E_T has suggested, some of my choices differ from his, but not greatly (I do turn multiple research on...although agreed it's rarely that useful....)

 

There are MANY other options, most of them hidden in the additional BUG menu, most are purely costmetic, some have useful functions, like hiding buildings that cannot be built, in C2C you will eventually have hundreds of buildings that cannot be built, there's also an option for hiding worker abilities that cannot be done too. There's dynamic XP which awards unit XP based upon the difficulty of the battle, easy fights may end up with no XP instead of the default, hard ones that are likely to result in the death of your unit will net more XP, it rewards risk, but makes it harder for your units to gain promotions, which considering the number of new promotions i tend to find this a less than helpful option...but some may like it. That's just a few....however some of those options may be the cause of OOS issues in MP games...which could be an issue, I know the CFC C2C forum has a MP section, may be worth looking at that as part of this venture.

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Sure did.

 

Deleted the unzipped files last night, and unzipped them again. It is working now - dunno what happened.

 

All I can say is OMFG - this mod looks awesome - will take a while to get used to everything.

 

What game speed do you recommend to play this on? I mucked around with it on Normal speed last night - seemed way too fast for all of the options.

 

The only other thing I would maybe have a bit of a gripe about is the animals - they appear alot. Got a bit "grindy".

 

My current game speed is snail pace, had tried Epic and Marathon and they were still too fast, somewhat....

 

 

As for the Animals, they are good because there are LOTS of things that you can do with subdued animals. There are many buildings that need them to be in the city to use them to be built, depending on techs. Plus they make great escorts for weak units...

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Or....failing that just butcher them for the production and food bonus!...but yeah, this mod is designed for long play, so snail or even eternity....thing to with though is that with eternity on chieftan you may find that you're way ahead of the AI and producing tanks in the early ADs but still well away from being half-way through the game....it's huge BTW, 1200 buildings? oh yes!

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In the game that I'm running, I'm still at stone spears 7 axes and haven't gotten cooking as of yet. I recently did the cave Dwelling "wonder" and used the GA to get the building queue burned though. So I'm causght up to the techs on building and I've gotten a number of animal buildings. Got a subdued wolf recently and and building up some other animals to all head back home.

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I am probably going to start a new game on Snail pace.

 

Work through a few different options of play style - you know - if I go this way what do I need to do etc.

 

Then crank up the difficulty until I get my arse handed to me on a plate.

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I would recommend that you play on a lower difficulty than you might normally do, some of the default game features make it much harder than you might think....for example the latest version added crime Irecently discoverd a tech that gave my cities +1 unhappiness and -10 finance if over 250 crime rate (I think), I have 6 cities, they are all over 250 crime rate, so the moment I discovered the tech i had an instant -60 (at least) drain to my economy!!

 

If nothing else this can make the game harder than you might expect, and that's just one of the features. There are also loads more religions, all of them having a unique aspect, the culture system is differnt too, pay attention to the base culture type (American, European, middle eastern, Oceanic) as they will affect what later cultures you can develop, which in turn give you more UUs and sometimes UBs...oh and hero units!. All civs have the Human culture.....this makes me wonder if one of the future versions of C2C plans to add in non-human civs.....don't see why not, they have alternate timeline techs, so why not non-human civs?

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This link tells you how to manually set up the ini files and the shortcuts so that you don't lose your settings every time you play C2C and then go back to unmodded BtS.

 

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11371474&postcount=4682

 

[EDIT] Once we get a game started, you might want to rename your C2C folder to include 22_1 (Caveman2Cosmos22_1). That way, when you get a newer version that you want to play in SP but don't want to mess up your ongoing MP game, then you just put that into a separate folder with the newer version number at the end. Then, you use the above instructions to make another shortcut to the new version and your good to go...

Edited by E_T

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There are also loads more religions, all of them having a unique aspect, the culture system is differnt too, pay attention to the base culture type (American, European, middle eastern, Oceanic) as they will affect what later cultures you can develop, which in turn give you more UUs and sometimes UBs...oh and hero units!. All civs have the Human culture.....this makes me wonder if one of the future versions of C2C plans to add in non-human civs.....don't see why not, they have alternate timeline techs, so why not non-human civs?

 

In the very early game, your civs get the basic Continental Culture, but it's confusing for an North American Civ as it's just listed as "Culture (American)". My first reaction to that was, why am I building Culture for the American Civ when I'm Iroquis? But it turns out that that is a baaic culture that all "American Continental" Civs need to later get their more specific culture. The Others for the other Continents are much more self explanitory, i.e. "Culture (Oceanic)", "Culture (African)", etc.

 

So build that early culture...

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Yeah - there is alot going on - will take a while to get a good grip on what to "go for" and what not to, and the inter-relationships between them all.

 

I would recommend that you play on a lower difficulty than you might normally do

 

So settler then? ;)

 

What I usually do with a new version of Civ, which I am counting this as, is start on low levels, play to middle ages, go up a difficulty level, play to middle ages, rinse and repeat until I start to get flogged.

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I started on Noble and am doing fine at the moment

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Actually Warlord seems about right for "training" any lower and you make a complete mockery of the AI as you end up being so far ahead of them that you can trounce their SoDs with only a few of your own units.....and boy does the AI build SoDs!!

 

Not that it helps the local Americans (I'm playing Native Americans), they had a good 40+ units.....but mostly stone axemen and some city watchmen and slingers....all VS my Cyote runners, a Warlord Chief and several Light Swordsmen.....within perhaps 5-10 turns I'd rolled all over them and taken all 3 of his cities. Mind you the AI on my continent were lagging behind tech wise, this was clear from the fact that I'm getting reports of completed wonders for techs that I've recently researched...or havent researched at all yet....although on the whole I am in the lead on all of the leader-boards, barring wealth. Now I'm making a beeline for Optics so that I can start exploring the ocean and find out how big the other AIs have become.

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Funny thing, found a mystery island which gave me a settler (Tribe), plonked it down right where it was found (which was an kay spot, but a bit far away from my empire), my cultural borders then nabbed a goody hut which was holding a stone thrower, so moved him to my city and upgraded him to a crossbowman (whilst the city was set to building a longbowman), then the caravel that found the tribe unit also found a gatherer in another goody island, so upgraded him to a worker and there we go, instant settled and defended city. Whilst the AI likes SoD it doesn't always cope with oversea warefare, so at this point if any of the AIs decided to go to war with me then my poorly defended cities will be fine for now....especially as none of the AIs are that close to the tech that allows ocean travel, and when they have reached it I'm likely to have moved further ahead myself and should have pretty decent defense.....mind you only 1 of my cities has actually run out of things to build!! (I now have about 18 in comparison to an AI that has 12 but \I think has mostly rtun out of building space, whereas I still have room to expand...I plan to wait until I get the tech that allows me to build cities on peaks, then start expanding again on my own continent.

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Other Options to discuss - continuation:

 

Where we left off on the list of options

- High to Low - OFF -- an SP only Option

 

So, let's get the last of the main Game options listed and all...

 

- Increasing Difficulty - OFF - increases the difficulty every 50 (at Normal Speed) turns until playing at Deity. But then, we're playing other people, so...

- Ruthless AI - not sure on this one, as we might be playing with AI's , too.. -- The AI is more aggresive and backstabing, step up from normal Aggresive AI setting. Expect no Mercy..

- Great Commanders - ON - Expands the possibilities for your GG. Doesn't attach to a Unit like the standard GG, but does help lead your nearby Military Units and added additional promotions over and above the standerd GG.

- Culturally Linked Starts - OFF - I like to guess as to who might be near me.

- Realistic Culture Spread - Not certain about this one, currently playing with it OFF -- Culture spreads more realistically, terrain has an effect on spread speed.

- Realistic Corporations - OFF -- Can't found or grow your Corps yourself, they are founded and grow dynamically. More like "real World", but can also be taxed and subsidized. Reduces Teidious MM (supposidly). Not sure if this option effects Guilds, too. And not really sure overall...

- Larger Cities without Metropoliton Administration - Not sure again -- Cities will be able to expand from size 2 (culture and standard fatcross, I assume) to a size 3 after acheiving the distinction of "influntial" without needing a Metrpolitan Administrator. I really don't understand this one

- Religion Decay - I have off in current game -- If you get a bunch of Religions, the older ones fade away (at least they way I understand it). I want lots of those religions for the later happiness...

- Barbs always Raze - OFF -- Barbs can't capture cities, so I can't liberate them.... A good thing if wanting to get a city from the AI but don't want to fight them, you liberate one of the ones that the Barbs took....

- United Nations - Off (unless not playing with Diplo Victory) -- Allows to have the UN and Apistolic Palace to be built if not playing a Diplo Victory game, but can't win by becoming Sec General.

- Advanced Espionage - ON -- C2C has expanded Espionage things in the game, this allows them to be available. OFF is standard BtS Espionage.

- Guilds - ON -- C2C has Medeval Guilds that are similar to Corporations, with their own benifits and limitations. I haven't played to the point of thes as of yet, but they do sound very cool...But not sure if having Realistic Corps option ON has any effect on founding these, too

- Modern Corporations - ON -- adds new corps for the modern era, making resources more valuble.

- Advanced Nukes - not sure about this -- more advanced variations of Nukes for your arsenal.... :beta: would have loved this for Hyperion.... :cute:

- Divine Prophets - not sure -- Use Prophets to found religions. Does that mean that you need them or that you don't need the prerequ tech to found one?? Need to know more on this.

- No city limits form civics - OFF -- in C2C, on your earlier civic choises, your limited at to the number of cities you can have, or you start getting maor unhappiness issues, empire wide. As far as I know, this Option turns that off. So, leave it off...

- No fixed borders - Don't know much about this -- No fixed border mechanics, whether from civics or any other source. I can't remember if I'm currently playing with this on or off...

 

And that's it for the Custom Game Options available for setting up a game in C2C.

 

Now, as for the ingame BUG options, it's suggested for MP that they all be the same for everyone. So, those can wait for a future post...

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Realistic Culture Spread I play with it on, basically means that your cultural border doesn't spread in such a normal pattern, mountains, hills and forests/rivers will take a few more culture points to spread over.

 

Realistic Corporations I play with this on too, corps will auto-found if you've satisfied the criteria, it does affect the guilds too

 

Larger Cities without Metropoliton Administration - I think the larger cities is on by default, what this option does is turn on/off the requirment for the Met admin for you to actually get the larger tile influence, gives your cities more tiles to work with, but only for the larger pop cities.

 

Divine Prophets - religions don't become founded wit ha tech, instead you get a prophet unit, I think this allows you to select the holy city....not sure if there's other changes as well.

 

No city limits form civics - I have this off too, I think it makes the game more interesting to have the civic limit your expansion...AI seems to i8gnore it though which often leads to the AI having lots of unhappy cities.

 

No fixed borders - this tells the game weather to allow the culture war or not depending upon civic choice, having it off means that you're less likely to get city flipping from culture as once the borders meet they do not move exept through conquest....I think.

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Heh...according to Strategyonly's post on CFC C2C is now at roughly 524 techs (latest SVN version, not public release)

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Realistic Culture Spread I play with it on, basically means that your cultural border doesn't spread in such a normal pattern, mountains, hills and forests/rivers will take a few more culture points to spread over.

 

Hmmm

 

Realistic Corporations I play with this on too, corps will auto-found if you've satisfied the criteria, it does affect the guilds too

 

Hmmm, I'd like more power over the founding of these, so I would want this off, especially while learinng them.

 

Larger Cities without Metropoliton Administration - I think the larger cities is on by default, what this option does is turn on/off the requirment for the Met admin for you to actually get the larger tile influence, gives your cities more tiles to work with, but only for the larger pop cities.

 

we'll leave it unchecked then.

 

Divine Prophets - religions don't become founded wit ha tech, instead you get a prophet unit, I think this allows you to select the holy city....not sure if there's other changes as well.

 

Well, would be nice to be able to found where I want to....

 

No city limits form civics - I have this off too, I think it makes the game more interesting to have the civic limit your expansion...AI seems to i8gnore it though which often leads to the AI having lots of unhappy cities.

 

No fixed borders - this tells the game weather to allow the culture war or not depending upon civic choice, having it off means that you're less likely to get city flipping from culture as once the borders meet they do not move exept through conquest....I think.

 

But then, if you have No city flipping from culture set, then this is moot??.

Edited by E_T

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Not 100% sure about the last one, the answers are mostly on CFC (for all of the options), but it's been blocked at my workplace, so I cannot check. Many of the options available in C2C are actually components from other mods, C2C has generally done other things and has some very ambitious plans for the future, stuff like multiple maps (lunar and orbital space I think), some new mechanism for exploring and settling stars (but not in the same way as the Final Frontier mod) and a spacepedia that gets added to as you research techs.

 

Oh and in evidence of the realistic spread my current game has a lot of salt plains and desert tiles, this lead to one of my cities gaining an upside-down U shape of cultural borders as my culture could not claim the desert tiles, but could claim the normal tiles around it (although somewhat aided by the barb city that I destroyed on the other side of the desert gaining me some influence points over those tiles).

 

And do you play with "tile damage" turned on? I have seen evidence that the AI and auto-coding for my own units doesn't understand the concept (an exploring uniot will happily rest on a dangerous tile and end up dying instead of healing), I fell prey to this several game version back when I moved a SoD up to an AI city that was surrounded by mountains and desert, I then started bombarding the city and leaving the other units to wait, knowing that in a few turns I would have eliminated the defense of the city.....without me noticing my SoD simply wasted away, because I was so busy with the rest of my empire I forgot that I wasn't being prompted to use my artillery anymore!, then when I remembered that I did have a SoD I couldn't find them!

Edited by Argroww

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The mysterious vanashing Stack O' Death... :lol:

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Indeed, animal units seem to be immune, as are units fortified inside a city that is built on a dangerous tile.

 

Hmmm....that reminded me, in my current game I have discovered rubber and sulpher, but do not seem to have any of either on my continent, I'm going to have to scour the map as whilst rubber does have an alternative sulpher doesnt wich could hamper my later progress with gunpowder units, both land and sea! (not that I have any yet)

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