Metaliturtle

Divorce

220 posts in this topic

I could, but my daughter is 9 weeks old, so there is a bias in my wife's favor.

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Yeah but

  • By the time the divorce and custody is settled she'll be somewhat older
  • Do I interpret post #47 correctly that she currently earns no or less money than you? In your advantage.
  • She is the one that chose to leave despite the young age of the child

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1. Yes, but studies show 2-3 is a more appropriate age to remove a child from a bonded mother.

2. She earns less than me but lives with her parents rent and expense free.

3. She chose to leave the marriage, but I was the one kicked out of the house. (we lived with her parents)

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How old are you Meta? Iirc I was done with the divorce before I turned 30, maybe 28ish. No child though. Sold the house in Jersey after the divorce and moved to Oregon. Thing about the house is it was valued at 95,000 in the process and I did everthing I could to keep it. Took a mortgage, gave her the savings and everything else. Moved back in to an empty house. It took a year before I decided to sell and maybe another before it sold for $172,000 :D. I had rode a bubble up after the divorce and things were looking up, it had been a difficult and depressing time. The bubble burst right after I sold, in fact it burst as the sale was completed. Six hundred point drop in the market back when that really meant something. That was 1988. Bought a truck and loaded up my 2 dogs and what little I'd collected and, with a cashiers check in my pocket I headed west. No job prospects, I just knew that New Jersey wasn't it any more. Drove through the tail end of the Yellowstone fire. Never been to Oregon but my brother was moving here so I settled nearby, but close to the ocean. Opened a little bookstore in a seaside town where I'm sitting right now. Stores gone but I'm here. Met lots of women in that store, lived with maybe half a dozen, one at a time however, ;) but didn't find what I was looking for. One thing I did do was make three driving trips back east, and once down to Florida where I watched the night space shuttle launch that fixed the Hubble.

 

I was looking for a sweet girl who was in it for the duration. I wasn't finding that, even in Oregon. Bad luck I guess I know lost of folks happily married to women from here. So I went to the Philippines and found Dolores. The important thing looking back on the divorce was putting it behind me asap, and in meeting someone new I looked in a culture where I could find the person I needed. I was married again at 39. I'm not always the shiny apple in the basket but I did that right. This is a multi family dwelling and I sold it before the nationwide bubble burst though things aren't so bad here. Kept an apartment for free for 10 years which will be up before too long. Soon we will settle in the Philippines. Been married 15 years, and it just gets better.

 

Point is, you get past it.

Edited by Lancer

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You have a lot of life ahead...once you get past this speed bump.

 

Remember to have a paternity test done. It strikes me as very odd that she started planning this 2 years ago. Something is wrong with this picture.

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She's my daughter, that's something they made sure to prove right away.

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Do you feel that you can trust the result? If they had it done I'd question it, no matter what it is.

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I trust the hospital :) The baby also looks like me.

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What i dont understand is - any i dont know wether this is for being european (not US-ian) or simply for lack of experience in life - why there needs to be a lawyer involved on both sides (or at all). Wouldnt it be much more beneficial for both of you, to get things sorted on your own, without having to pay (probably expensive) lawyers? Like setting up some sort of contract together, and then seeing a lawyer for signing it under witness and legal aproval. Or maybe getting a mediator, if you cannot manage to come to terms on your own. Does it really have to turn into ´total war´ in the US?

 

You´ll lose your daughter. I dont think there is much you can do about this. All you can hope for is visiting rights, probably. The mom always gets the kids, if she wants them. Daddy may pay for the occasional visit. Harsh, but let´s face it. That´s how it´s gonna be.

 

You got kicked out of the house. Well, if it was her parent´s house, then that´s only natural, sort of, right? I mean, it would have been wierd of her rents would have kicked her out, instead, right?

 

What about common possessions? Is there much to divide?

 

Cant you just talk to your ex-wife (maybe through a third person), trying to negotiate your alliments to pay, how often you will be allowed to see your daughter and how to devide things up? There surely are some established standards for the alliments (as well as visiting-times), right? Take that as guidance, but try to add something along the lines of, ´for as long as [her] doesnt earn more than twice as much more [than the amount of alliments to pay] than you´, or something. I´d rather pay a dollar or two more, if it saved me from this lawyer-war, probably (and hence most likely would save money, too).

 

Besides, i have sort of split feelings about this, metalli: Either you must be really sour, completely screwed over and taken by evil surprise, or there is something, that you didnt tell us (and may decide not to, for the upcoming lawyer-battle).

 

Well, anyways, i am not gonna go as far as con, saying you guys must stick together for the child - as i think, your own happiness didnt lose all value after the child arrived (children are often overrated these days, IMHO - it´s not all about the kids), but i still say, for the sake of it and your own, you should try everything to avoid the divorce-drama court-wars and act as sensible adult christians (and i am not Nikolai, saying this) who dont compeletey forget the interest of the other and the child - both of you. This is a thing between you three, and actually, if any possible, no-one else should get involved. No-one else can sort this out for you - if someone else ends up doing it anyways, it wont be sorted, properly. I´d start by trying to find a (neutral) mediator (if direct talks only promise to end up in a scream-fight and offer no chance of being conducted sensibly) - maybe a common(!) lawyer?

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...............

I found out yesterday that she put her lawyer on retainer halfway through pregnancy, most likely she waited until now because I just became fully vested in a rather large portion of my retirement account.

 

Just to bring that up again, your a smart enough guy i'm sure, but in all the emotional upheavel things get missed. That, i believe, is something your lawer will be very interested to know, isn't that some kind of grounds for not being entitled to the 'normal' settlement etc? That's if you are concerned about that side of things, and how resentful of the situation you are etc. Chin up fella, and i always like to remember this saying when in a bit of a corner in life, "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."

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Naw, you're a lot taller. :cute:

 

:D

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If someone has assets, Mr. Scruffy, then in the US that person would WANT a lawyer.

 

The following comments apply in General, they do NOT apply in any specific state, but they are general guidelines that apply in some states. These are just things that someone in the US might want to think about and why a lawyer is likely needed.

 

1.A Judge can order counseling for parties to see if there is a chance of reconciliation. If the parties in 60 days don't agree, then the judge can either extend, or end the forced counseling.

 

2.Parties can go to mediation to work things out. But this can be difficult to do when assets are at issue and there is a child--without a child this could be easy.

 

3.There cannot be the same lawyer for both parties. Each party has different interests and it would be a violation of attorney-client relationship

for an attorney to represent both. (I think there may be a weird counseling sort where an attorney can make recommendations like a mediator, but that attorney can at no point represent the interests of both people as their lawyer).

 

4.Mediation... unless the parties are invested in it- it can be a poor idea. There's a vast difference between people and outcomes for people who come because the court tells them and the people who voluntarily come. Things also tend to go better with lawyers involved than without- since the lawyers actually know the stakes.

 

5. Some states don't give 'alimony' or 'spousal support' except when spouses have been married X amount of years, like 10 years. Factors that courts will look at for spousal support include whether one spouse works or not, spousal savings, whether a spouse has more education than the other, or if a spouse has commitments that preclude them from reentering the workforce (e.g. disabled spouse, or disabled child).

 

6. But there is in the US a thing called the Uniform Child Support Act (???) The parent who is the possessory conservator; not the managing conservator (the one who gets to take care of the child), needs to pay the managing conservator 20% of net income until the child gets to be 18.

 

7. Americans may have something called 'separate property' . The separate property is inherited from wills, etc. and it is the property of the spouse. However, lots of times, Americans co-mingle these assets in a joint bank account. In a divorce, the judge will make a just and right division of property that is not separate property, so it can be important to properly identify the funds.

 

8.It is possible that in the court, parties can share the child as 'Joint Managing Conservators'.

A court might apply that if: Parents have shown the ability to reach shared decisions, Parent can encourage and accept positive relationship between child and other parent, Both parents participated in child rearing before suit was filed, Geographical proximity.

 

Consequences of a JMC could be; Exclusive power to make decisions can be given to the primary JMC,Court order designates teh person with exclusive right to determine child's primary residence and est. geographic area of primary residence., Either JMC can be ordered to pay child support.

 

And there will probably be a court order that will incorporate a parenting plan that sets out rights and duties of each parent, provides for periods of possession of and access to the child, provides for child support, and optimizes the development of a close and continuing relationship between each parent and the child.

 

If a case becomes a high conflict case, court may appoint a parenting coordinator (impartial 3d party appointed to assist the parties resolve parenting issues) or a Parenting facilitator, who can do the same as coordinator, but who can also monitor compliance with court orders.

 

9.There are stautory general rights if one party is a possessory conservator. Generally, the possessory conservator may receive the child on Thursdays 6-8PM; and on the 1st, 3d, and 5th weekends (6pm fri to 6PM Sun), and I think 1 month in the summer. Those may only apply if someone lives in 100 miles. They can be modified on a showing of good cause (usually to award Less rights-the possessory conservator needs to prove what is in the best interests of the child)... If someone pursues this in mediation, they might be able to sometimes get better visitation rights. An attorney can walk someone through that.

 

10.A lawyer can help one party determine if there has been 'fraud on the community.' If there has been fraud, that can affect a just and right division of property.

 

11.In assigning custody, a court will look to the best interests of the child. Factors they may consider are: Desires of child, physical and emotional needs, parental ability, stability of home enviro, parent's plans, opportunities for the child. Negative factors: intentional use of force v. spouse child or other parent; acts and omissions showing that one parent is less fit than the other.

 

12.INteresting trivia. If someone dies before the child reaches 18, their estate still has to pay the child support. The amount payable gets discounted to present value.

 

13. ERISA pension plans are a bit different from Life Insurance. Someone who has one would want to talk to an attorney about the beneficiary designation and consequences.

 

14. Rules are different if someone is in a community property state or one of the others. Only about 9 states are Community property states. Ones that are not community property states may have an 'elective share' statute for spouses.

 

15. And of course...while statements made for purposes of settlement negotiations are usually confidential (especially when made in mediation)--the more one blabs about things, Mr. Scruffy, even thorough a third party-unless that third party is a lawyer- that person may be opening yourself to getting evidence presented in court that one would not want presented. Best policy, once reconciliation is off the table, is to keep one's mouth shut and to do all the talking through a lawyer.

 

*note again, this is not legal advice for any jurisdiction. The above is just a list of some common principles that sometimes apply, sometimes don't; just things to think about and to ask an attorney about. MrScruffy-THIS is why someone needs an attorney in the US.

 

What i dont understand is - any i dont know wether this is for being european (not US-ian) or simply for lack of experience in life - why there needs to be a lawyer involved on both sides (or at all). Wouldnt it be much more beneficial for both of you, to get things sorted on your own, without having to pay (probably expensive) lawyers? Like setting up some sort of contract together, and then seeing a lawyer for signing it under witness and legal aproval. Or maybe getting a mediator, if you cannot manage to come to terms on your own. Does it really have to turn into ´total war´ in the US?

 

You´ll lose your daughter. I dont think there is much you can do about this. All you can hope for is visiting rights, probably. The mom always gets the kids, if she wants them. Daddy may pay for the occasional visit. Harsh, but let´s face it. That´s how it´s gonna be.

 

You got kicked out of the house. Well, if it was her parent´s house, then that´s only natural, sort of, right? I mean, it would have been wierd of her rents would have kicked her out, instead, right?

 

What about common possessions? Is there much to divide?

 

Cant you just talk to your ex-wife (maybe through a third person), trying to negotiate your alliments to pay, how often you will be allowed to see your daughter and how to devide things up? There surely are some established standards for the alliments (as well as visiting-times), right? Take that as guidance, but try to add something along the lines of, ´for as long as [her] doesnt earn more than twice as much more [than the amount of alliments to pay] than you´, or something. I´d rather pay a dollar or two more, if it saved me from this lawyer-war, probably (and hence most likely would save money, too).

 

Besides, i have sort of split feelings about this, metalli: Either you must be really sour, completely screwed over and taken by evil surprise, or there is something, that you didnt tell us (and may decide not to, for the upcoming lawyer-battle).

 

Well, anyways, i am not gonna go as far as con, saying you guys must stick together for the child - as i think, your own happiness didnt lose all value after the child arrived (children are often overrated these days, IMHO - it´s not all about the kids), but i still say, for the sake of it and your own, you should try everything to avoid the divorce-drama court-wars and act as sensible adult christians (and i am not Nikolai, saying this) who dont compeletey forget the interest of the other and the child - both of you. This is a thing between you three, and actually, if any possible, no-one else should get involved. No-one else can sort this out for you - if someone else ends up doing it anyways, it wont be sorted, properly. I´d start by trying to find a (neutral) mediator (if direct talks only promise to end up in a scream-fight and offer no chance of being conducted sensibly) - maybe a common(!) lawyer?

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Her parents have been hiding assets on her behalf for the last 2 years (she would write them checks saying they bought stuff for her and we needed to 'pay them back').

 

Don't know how it stands in the US, but in Australia if you're able to prove this without a doubt, the judge will count the worth of any items she's done that to for the last 12 months of the marriage against her settlement. It's to try and stop just this thing happening.

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In California, you really get slammed for that. Each spouse has a fiduciary duty to the other. Concealing assets is fraud. The statute of limitations is three years from the date of discovery of the fraud, and so a evil spouse can get sued decades after the divorce.

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All in all, the initial hearing went really well. My lawyer was able to negotiate with her lawyer so I get to see my daughter every day, with my time increasing as my daughter gets older (ie less dependent on my wife's teets). We're in an interim period now in which we can decide to reconcile (not happening) but we're also in a position where my wife and I can discuss divisions etc. of property ourselves, and for the most part she doesn't want anything but the cash in my retirement account and one of the 2 cars.

 

Good stuff though is that I get time with my daughter every day, she knows me, she loves me, and she always takes a **** about 2 seconds after I hand her back to my wife. I will post more details when I'm comfortable, but I want to say I appreciate the opportunity to vent my frustrations a little on here.

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Hey, if you can't vent at your friends, then they're not really your friends. :nod:

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Hey, since this is your first kid and marriage and such, there couldn't be too much in that account at present, does it?

When are you going to spring the "concealing assets" trap? :D

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Sad, hard times. You'll get through Meta, just keep your head.

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Good to hear :D.

And glad that the lawyers were able to be at the mediation-it's useful to have a cool head who knows the stakes present to organize things.

Once again, good luck.

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Good stuff MT.

 

Now you need to invest some serious quality time with beer, whiskey and dirty dirty girls.

 

:nod:

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:nono: Bad idea! Too much beer is bad for you.

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Good to hear that you'e making some headway :b:

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