Alexander

Crusader Kings II: I'm Starting to Get Excited

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This is a game made by history nerds, for history nerds. It's basically medieval Europa Universalis, but with RPG elements in the royal houses.

 

Here's the proof, in case you doubt it.

 

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I wonder why King does this to himself. I mean its pretty obvious that he doesnt enjoy talking to the camera and the video doesnt portrait all that much. So in summary, this video-DD could as well been done as a conventional DD. But video-messages seem to be en vogue, these days, and i wonder which ´historical figurehead´ is responsible for that... ;P

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Meh, it's still a paradox game, i'll get excited after the first expansion. Until then it just has my interest.

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One of the few games i'll be keeping my eye on, as i loved the first game(and still play it quite a bit). Lemmy's point is well deserved, so i'm hoping these last few years the Paradox guys may have learnt something. I guess i also want to be able to play as pagan/muslim factions, so i may well wait for patches and the mods that will allow this, or i may jump right in if the feedback is good - i know the CK fans over at the paradox forums will be keen to see what comes out.

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Yeah, the original CK had many basic flaws that were only remedied in the first expansion. At least CK2 is starting ahead with those already fixed. The only concern is what the new flaws might be.

 

Still, everything I've read up on it so far looks good.

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I wont get this for some time, as I am still painfully behind on my Paradox games (still deep in HOI2, never got DV or Rev expansions, or EU3 or Vickie2) so patch away. I did love CK, even without DV.

 

From the video, it sounds like there will be mainly atmospheric changes (and I assume, graphics) not really gameplay mechanics changes?

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They're including barons, bishops and mayors at the county level so playing as a lowly count won't be so mind-numbingly boring.

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I wont get this for some time, as I am still painfully behind on my Paradox games (still deep in HOI2, never got DV or Rev expansions, or EU3 or Vickie2) so patch away. I did love CK, even without DV.

 

From the video, it sounds like there will be mainly atmospheric changes (and I assume, graphics) not really gameplay mechanics changes?

 

You cant be painfully behind in PI-gaming - just painfully up to date...

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Their forum seems to be overloaded/down. :(

I've been lurking there for a few days...looks very interesting. (not excited yet! :p)

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Yep, it's out now. Came out on Valentine's Day. And in answer to Lemmy, their forums are back up. :)

 

Come check out my story at the link above if you're interested in learning more about the game.

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All accounts i've read of it say Paradox have done a great job this time :b: It's my next 'new' game purchase :D

 

Oh and the demo is worth a look for those on the fence :nod:

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My story won the best CK2 AAR contest. My reward is a collection of about 45 Paradox games on Steam, worth around $400. I'm not even sure what to do with it all.

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:b: Awesome!

 

How easy would it be to post your story here too? It would be great to get some more strategy fans at WPC, there might be some more crossover!

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:b: Awesome!

 

How easy would it be to post your story here too? It would be great to get some more strategy fans at WPC, there might be some more crossover!

 

Well, take a look.

 

What do you think?

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I'm up to 1184 and I'm thoroughly enjoying it! I'll continue to read it over the weekend and will look into the game in more detail too.

 

How's the game doing in regards to bugs? Is it worth holding off until these get ironed out?

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I'm up to 1184 and I'm thoroughly enjoying it! I'll continue to read it over the weekend and will look into the game in more detail too.

 

Hey! well done Alexander :)

 

Ditto

 

Thanks guys! :)

 

How's the game doing in regards to bugs? Is it worth holding off until these get ironed out?

 

Actually, I think it's probably one of the least buggy of Paradox's initial releases. There's still a fair number of things that I would say are exploits or otherwise unbalanced, but I haven't found it to be particularly buggy like some of PI's other releases. And they came out with a patch almost immediately.

 

I've had a lot of fun with it so far. :nod:

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http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2012/03/01/crusader-kings-ii-cruel-to-be-gavelkind/

 

A fair review or not? I'm suspicious (who me! ;) ) that most of the other reviews at metacritic and up there on the scoreboard and, on reflection, I've tended to agree with QtT's reviews of games that I already own. If so, can you suggest some historic overview literature that the history layman could read to brush up on the subject?

 

Also, these threads were suggested to shed some light on the game, that the manual / tutorial fail so miserably to do. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?589469-GUIDE-In-depth-Guide-to-CKII

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?588118-Saltborn-A-Crovan-AAR&

 

I will, of course, continue reading your excellent AAR, to supplement my knowledge of the game.

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Re: that review, it's hard to say. I'm not exactly a layman when it comes to medievalisms, so I couldn't say how someone totally uninitiated in the history would respond.

 

Though IMHO it seems as though the reviewer is making a mountain out of a molehill. For example, to me the difference between a marriage and a betrothal, or a claim and a title is obvious.

 

I don't know how familiar you are with medieval European history, but the premise of the game really isn't that complicated. In fact, I'd almost say it's a watered-down version of the real complexity of the medieval world.

 

Here's the basic idea: you are a noble. There are five different ranks of nobles: baron, count, duke, king, emperor.

 

You can't play a baron. They're just there so you still have people to interact with when you're a count. But whatever tier of lordship you're at, your goal is to gain more power and land and prestige for your family. But you can't just rampage around like a lunatic all the time, basically because there are other people around to stop you. You only get to fight within the box the big powers set. But it's all relative. Some kings let their lessers fight each other, others don't. The church is very happy when you fight non-Christians, but gets upset if you fight your brothers of the faith.

 

And there's different rules for determining who gets your stuff when you die. Primogeniture means your firstborn son gets it. Gavelkind means all your sons get a piece. Seniority means the oldest family member is next in line (whether a brother, son, nephew or cousin). Elective means all your vassals elect your successor from among themselves. And there's also gender laws: agnatic means only males inherit, agnatic-cognatic means females can inherit but only after males, and cognatic means females get equal inheritance with males (but this is only available on rare occasions).

 

So you finagle through all the laws and claims on titles, trying to take advantage of the system to benefit yourself as much as possible. Forge a claim to your neighbor's land and then fight them for it. Have your father's cousin's half-brother's uncle removed from the succession by murder. Go crusading against the pagans and take their stuff.

 

And that's really all there is to it.

 

Although I would agree that the tutorials were pretty weak. But I still thought the UI was pretty intuitive, so it didn't take me long to figure things out.

 

Does that help at all?

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Sure does! Thanks, I always prefer a review from a peer, even if said peer is a fan of the game, rather than an official review, who I regard with more and more suspicion the older I get! ;)

 

Three questions!

Is there a 'beginner' character/nation that you can recommend to get my feet wet in the demo (if choices are allowed) or full version. Something that isn't going to bust my balls, but still give me a chance to have a good look at various aspects of the game.

Is it possible to 'win' without resorting to the military aspect of the game. As much as I love civ, it does seem to dissolve into a war game all too often.

Have you tried the MP aspect of the game and if so what are your thoughts?

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I don't know that there's a specific beginner choice that's always going to be easier...

 

For example, playing a king means you'll start with more land and money, but also more powerful enemies both inside and outside of your realm. Whereas if you play a count, you'll have much less land but also plenty of room to grow. I'm sure some of the options are more fun to play than others. I generally hear that people like starting as one of the little Irish petty lordships and working their way up. Spain is also supposed to be a fair bit of fun -- there are 5 smaller kingdoms to choose from there: Castille, Aragon, Navarre, Leon and Galicia. Poland and the Sicilian Normans are also supposed to be a lot of fun. A lot of people also like playing as the Byzantine Empire. So... do you have a favorite country that you really relate to? That can certainly add to the fun. I like to play as Anglo-Saxon England, for example.

 

Of course I've been playing as the Kingdom of Jerusalem, but it can be a pretty big challenge since you have enemies all around.

 

BTW, in the demo there are only 4 characters that are unlocked, but there's a workaround... select one of the 4, click "start game" and then hurry and click on the country you want to play, and bingo, you're them. The demo will let you play 20 years of game time before it ends.

 

I doubt it's possible to be totally pacifistic in CK2... it's a dangerous era, after all. But you definitely don't have to be a warmonger. The end goal is obtaining prestige for your family. At the end of the game, the prestige scores of each of the kings you've played throughout the history of your country are tallied up, and that's your final score. You'll be measured against the successes of real life dynasties in a manner similar to how Civ rates you with historical leaders. But anyway, back to prestige. There are lots of ways for you to gain prestige, and they're not necessarily predicated on war. Of course war is an easy shortcut to land, and land amounts to prestige in the long run, but you can always play the political game and obtain titles through intrigue. There's also lots of improvements to build in your local holdings.

 

But there's no guarantee of peace -- if your neighbor wants your stuff, you're going to have to fight him for it or he'll just take it from you.

 

I'm sorry to say I can't comment on the MP aspect, because I haven't tried it yet.

 

Give the demo a try if it's still available, and that should give you a good idea of what the game's like. The final game has had several tweaks since then, but all the main elements are in place.

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