Rhoth

WPC Civ4 Diplogame set-up thread

1,324 posts in this topic

Actually Beta this is the ONLY time to question things ;)

 

Yep, I still think 10 players is the best / balanced. But it is also as important that each civ is played

> we are going to need a sub..

 

PS. Have you seen the civs on the previous page?

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Actually Beta this is the ONLY time to question things ;)

 

Yep, I still think 10 players is the best / balanced. But it is also as important that each civ is played

> we are going to need a sub..

 

Agreed and understood.

 

PS. Have you seen the civs on the previous page?

 

Yes. :nod: Awesome. :b:

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Looking good Calanthian. Thanks for making the map. :b:

 

This will be done in such a manner that trade is stimulated:

there will be southern, northern, western and eastern resources.

 

Just as long as it isn't done so that one civ has all of a particular resource, especially if it is a good early resource like gold. I remember seeing the map that was created for a demogame at Apolyton awhile back and one civ had ALL of the gold and ALL of the silver. Kind of unfair for the rest of the teams because their economy shot through the roof really early...unless of course I'm the one that ends up with all the gold and silver. ;)

Edited by Rhoth

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On trade:

 

Just as long as it isn't done so that one civ has all of a particular resource, especially if it is a good early resource like gold. I remember seeing the map that was created for a demogame at Apolyton awhile back and one civ had ALL of the gold and ALL of the silver. Kind of unfair for the rest of the teams because their economy shot through the roof really early...unless of course I'm the one that ends up with all the gold and silver.

 

Don't worry. We have a much more detailed system in mind. And it will also take into account the division of smileys and health..

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On trade:

 

Don't worry. We have a much more detailed system in mind. And it will also take into account the division of smileys and health..

 

Cool. Don't make it too sanitized though. Half the fun is discovering ways to acquire that which you don't have. :)

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All looking awesome Calanthian! :b:

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All looking awesome Calanthian! :b:

 

Indeed! The story telling and role playing opportunities will be plentiful. :D

 

#1 ...... btw - I earlier suggested a possible split of scoring between the story-telling, roleplaying/diplomacy, and game score. The addition of the game score - say as a 33% weight, being the one change from the current system used at Poly. How do folks feel about that?

 

#2 .......What are we thinking about civ choice? (a) Random assignment, or (b) draw lots for draft choices 1 thru 10 (or 11) or © give choices 1 thru 3 to an admin who will see who gets what and resolves ties with a coin toss?

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Indeed! The story telling and role playing opportunities will be plentiful. :D

 

#1 ...... btw - I earlier suggested a possible split of scoring between the story-telling, roleplaying/diplomacy, and game score. The addition of the game score - say as a 33% weight, being the one change from the current system used at Poly. How do folks feel about that?

 

I completely agree with this.

 

#2 .......What are we thinking about civ choice? (a) Random assignment, or (b) draw lots for draft choices 1 thru 10 (or 11) or © give choices 1 thru 3 to an admin who will see who gets what and resolves ties with a coin toss?

 

Not sure on that. I'm okay with random.

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What we did in 'Destruction of Foes' is:

 

random distibution with possibility to switch afterwards

(the amount of switching actually done was very limited)

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What we did in 'Destruction of Foes' is:

 

random distibution with possibility to switch afterwards

(the amount of switching actually done was very limited)

 

That sounds fine to me.

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Custom resources sound good to me. Great work with the civs! I should have enlisted your help for DoF. I was stuck on that forever.

 

I'd prefer Byzantium over Rhodes.

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Also, I'm personally in favor of a balanced range of traits. Currently the breakdown for the 10-11 civs is:

 

Organized

Imperialistic 4-5

Philosphical 3

Aggressive 2

Spiritual 2

Creative 2

Industrious

Charismatic 4

Financial

Protective 1-2

 

We should have less imperialistic/charismatic and more organized/industrious/financial.

 

I also don't like two civs with the same UU/UB.

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#1 ...... btw - I earlier suggested a possible split of scoring between the story-telling, roleplaying/diplomacy, and game score. The addition of the game score - say as a 33% weight, being the one change from the current system used at Poly. How do folks feel about that?

 

Sounds good! :b:

 

#2 .......What are we thinking about civ choice? (a) Random assignment, or (b) draw lots for draft choices 1 thru 10 (or 11) or © give choices 1 thru 3 to an admin who will see who gets what and resolves ties with a coin toss?

 

Option C sounds best to me. If not I'm fine with random

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* On the civs and the traits: it isn't that flexible at the moment (combo of leader head and traits).

So I really prefer to keep it that way.

 

* Financial civs: I purposely reduced their number, as they will have a huge advantage on an island map.

 

* On the UU / UB if we want to change these for the Greek civs: Athens (hoplite), Sparta (Spartan Phalanx) and Macedon (Hetairoi) then I'll need some help how to do it.

 

 

* Yep, we could put Byzantium in as 11th, but name it BITHYNIA (more historically correct) and put it on the other side of the Hellaspont.

(As Thracia may have to much area available, and then pressure on Troy will be less).

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I also prepared the special resources we use in 'Destruction of Foes' for use in "Gods and Heroes".

These are barley, peas, coton and olives.

 

I hope you agree to this Ozzy and DNK?

 

 

If you agree to this then I can start spreading the resources.

 

This will be done in such a manner that trade is stimulated:

there will be southern, northern, western and eastern resources.

1. That's perfectly fine. I guess it's best if you do that first before making the map :)

 

2. For resource distribution, I used a special system in DoF that struck a good balance between regional realism and player balance. I made a spreadsheet for resources/civs and then went through and assigned each 4,3,2,1,1 for resources (I think). That means each civ got 4 of one resource, 3 of another, 2 of another, and two more resources, each for happiness resources and health resources (strategic ones everyone got, of course, although the modern ones were harder to acquire).

 

I tried my best to balance it so that no one got all gems/gold/silver for happiness while no one else got all spices and whatever. So, I tried to give everyone 4 or so "good" happiness resources (metals/dye), although some got it better than others of course.

 

I highly suggest doing something similar. It's really the only way to ensure balance that I know of.

 

#1 ...... btw - I earlier suggested a possible split of scoring between the story-telling, roleplaying/diplomacy, and game score. The addition of the game score - say as a 33% weight, being the one change from the current system used at Poly. How do folks feel about that?

 

#2 .......What are we thinking about civ choice? (a) Random assignment, or (b) draw lots for draft choices 1 thru 10 (or 11) or © give choices 1 thru 3 to an admin who will see who gets what and resolves ties with a coin toss?

#1...... There need to be very clear guidelines for what comprises "roleplaying" and what comprises "storytelling" this time around. I'm still not really sure how to grade people on both in DoE. Including the score is a great way to make the game more militaristic. Given how DoE has shaped up, that might not be a good thing, but then given how everyone says it's the most militaristic diplogame so far, maybe it would be useful?

 

#2...... what we did for DoF worked well for everyone I think, and I'd like that again.

 

Also, I'm personally in favor of a balanced range of traits. Currently the breakdown for the 10-11 civs is:

 

Organized

Imperialistic 4-5

Philosphical 3

Aggressive 2

Spiritual 2

Creative 2

Industrious

Charismatic 4

Financial

Protective 1-2

 

We should have less imperialistic/charismatic and more organized/industrious/financial.

 

I also don't like two civs with the same UU/UB.

Agreed.

 

* On the civs and the traits: it isn't that flexible at the moment (combo of leader head and traits).

So I really prefer to keep it that way.

 

* Financial civs: I purposely reduced their number, as they will have a huge advantage on an island map.

 

* On the UU / UB if we want to change these for the Greek civs: Athens (hoplite), Sparta (Spartan Phalanx) and Macedon (Hetairoi) then I'll need some help how to do it.

You can mod the civ and leader traits fairly easily, so it's quite doable while keeping the same old leaderheads and artwork. I forget the exact file, but I think it's in xml\civs\leaders or civs or something like that. I can do it if needed, although it's fairly straight-forward and simple to do iirc. I can also help on the UU/UBs, at least so long as you have another UU/UB in the game you want to use instead.

 

My suggestions (each should start with one food tech: agriculture/fishing/hunting, depending on what's local to the capital):

 

Illyria (rename it to Rome imo)

Aggressive/Industrious

Mining/FOOD

Classical UU: Legionary (praetorian)

Classical UB: Forum (forum)

Okay, so this is Rome. They have little choice but to expand by land, and well Romans were industrious mining experts with a ton of aggression. It all works out.

 

Macedon

Aggressive/Imperialistic

Mining/FOOD

Classical UU: Heavy Cavalry (keshik)

Classical UB: Weaponsmith (forge +35%H)

Alexander really leveraged the use of cavalry in warfare at the time, and, well, we all can't have phalanxes, now can we? Along with Rome, these were the big conquerors of their day, so gearing them towards conquest works well. Also, being in the middle of it all, having an aggressive wrecking ball will make the game more fun rather than having a peaceful builder in the center of the world.

 

Thracia

Protective/Charismatic

???/FOOD

Ancient UU: Hill-man (gallic warrior)

Ancient UB: Sacred Rock (totem pole)

Not really sure, as they're known for being a backwards, heavily populated hill people. Seems ancient uniques are best.

 

Epirus

Protective/Expansive

???/FOOD

Classical UU: ???

Classical UB: ???

Not sure how to not make them another Greek clone. Should be protective as they're nearby both the Romans and Macedonians and need to have some security.

 

Athens

Creative/Philosophical

The Wheel/FOOD

Ancient UU: Phalanx (phalanx)

Ancient UB: Odeon (odeon)

Fairly straightforward.

 

Troy

Spiritual/???

Mysticism/FOOD

Ancient UU: Trojan Horse (war chariot)

Ancient UB: Trojan Walls (wall +75%D -60%Siege)

 

Lydia

Should be Persia or another more famous Anatolian people like the Hittites. A footnote people.

 

Sparta

Aggressive/Imperialistic

Hunting/FOOD

Ancient UU: Hoplites (phalanx)

Ancient UB: Agoge (barracks +5XP)

As they will have the same basic UU as their neighbors, giving them an extra leg up with a barracks should be a good idea.

 

Minoans

Financial/???

???/FOOD

Ancient UU: cretan archer (bowman)

Ancient UB: Anaktora (palace +15%GPT)

Not very well known, but needing a good naval outlook. A UB palace is an interesting idea.

 

Milete

Financial/Industrious

The wheel/FOOD

Classical UU: quinquireme (trireme 3power, can enter ocean?)

Classical UB: Eupalinian aqueduct (baray)

Rich city state of Samos? Traits seem best for more of a city state civ for a good builder, and a decent navy is a good idea. Not really sure what this was supposed to be, though.

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Just had an idea. We can play with "choose your religion" and add a bunch of new religions/philosophies (all with the same attributes as the old ones). Basically, there would still only be the same number of religions founded, but the options would be greatly expanded for everyone. So, if you are the first to discover meditation, you'd have the choice of founding something like 10 or 15 religions.

 

A great flavor addition for a diplogame that has basically no gameplay impact. I'd be willing to do it, if you guys don't mind the buildings/missionaries/etc looking basically like the vanilla ones (I'll change the symbols for cities/etc at least).

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@DNK:

 

* the religion idea is great! Your effort will be appreciated !

 

* on resource spread: of course, like we ;) made up for DoF

 

* on civs: some ideas I like, some I don't.

In my opinion you have a tendency to overpower Illyria and Macedon.

 

Here is the previously posted screenshot again..

 

godsandheroes.png

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/godsandheroes.png/

 

 

- Illyria is fine as it is. (see screenshot). They have a very strong UU, and are placed in the corner, let's not make them even stronger.. so no IND/AGG..

 

- Macedon. UU Keshik I agree (but will be called Hetairoi (the Companion Cavalry)). Weaponsmith is too much, let's give them a special stable + 4 XP (stats of Ger).

 

- Thracia is fine like it is. Most of what you said was already in. And I like the Dunn.

Maybe remove Charismatic (see screenshot)

 

- Epirus I already solved (see screenshot). Make them Financial / protective.

 

- Athens remains same.

 

- Troy all as in screenshot. + the Ancient UB: Trojan Walls: me like :).

 

- Lydia same (is actually Persian stats)

 

- Sparta as in screenshot + Agoge (barracks + 5XP)

 

- Minoans as in screenshot. They already have the big island, no neighbor advantage, and good defense (bowman); it is not wise to give them a lot of money..

 

- Milete: the UU quinquireme (trireme 3 power) is nice, though oceanfaring would be too strong and would cancel out some map features..

I like the Cothon for them. I’ll replace imperialistic with industrious.

Edited by Calanthian

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#2 .......What are we thinking about civ choice? (a) Random assignment, or (b) draw lots for draft choices 1 thru 10 (or 11) or © give choices 1 thru 3 to an admin who will see who gets what and resolves ties with a coin toss?

 

I think the best approach would be for players to choose in order, based alphabetically on their user name. Looks like Bantams would be first. Now, who would be second? :cute:

 

(sorry Zoid :D)

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To make up, I'll choose for Zoid (and me ;))

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Well If it's picking like beta suggests then "This Is Sparta!" :D

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Did I ever tell you that in Maori 'R' is the first word of the alphabet?

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Considering this game isn't all about winning, and that I don't really have a history-based preference either, I honestly don't much care who I get. Feel free to place me last in the pecking order if we do decide to let people choose. :)

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To make up, I'll choose for Zoid (and me ;))

 

:nod:

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