Rhoth

WPC Civ4 Diplogame set-up thread

1,324 posts in this topic

The mods will be minor. If we do Greece, I already have a resource mod from the Med map we can use. All it does is change things like silk into things like papyrus and olives. 100% cosmetic.

 

I would be happy to not make another map, but I can help with the mod at least.

 

I think that's a go-ahead for making a Greece map. I would still like the map to have Ozzy or another experienced map maker's assistance in the map creation, no offense to Calanthian, but it helps to have more than one creative voice in such an important aspect of the game, especially with respect to balancing and strategic design.

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I like the sound of Greece too. I assume every player gets some reasonable land to start with? i.e. nobody stuck on an island with no second city site until sailing?

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I don't like the idea of a landlocked game like the US one.

 

It would have navigable rivers. So, something like this:

map.GIF

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I love that US Map of Ozzy's and with navigable rivers it could work a peach. I first thought it more like a Civil War scenario type of setting but starting in that setting it would make a great diversity of resources natural and trade essential.

 

Trade is the first, and most important, reason for diplomacy between nations so it stands high. Command of the supply of natural resources is the first reason for war; diplo-game does not mean peaceful game. I love it!

 

Having said that, I will take what comes as I want to play another Diplo regardless. Like Rob, I am not a fan of heavy modding but if the game rules don't get stupidly altered and all avenues of expansion are open I can cope.

 

I definitely vote US as number 1. Only ones I really don't like are Central Europe, no navies, and just an abstract Inland Sea which seems fairly pointless without any storyline for us to base the game around.

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I also dont like the US map prefere something with a bit of water in.

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It looks like the Greece/inland sea map is the clear winner here. I haven't seen much voting on the mod for the extra diplo options and the cosmetic options for the Greece map that DNK brought up, but I'm in favor of both personally.

 

Let's get this decided soon (or I'll decide for everyone ;)) so a map maker can get a map created and we can get this game going! :b:

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Proposal:

 

I could do the first version of the map, and Ozzy or DNK could finish it?

 

A couple of things we need to know:

 

* how many players ?

Here’s a map with 11 players..

 

 

knipselgreece2.gif

 

 

• The states on the border of the map (advantage) are further away from the uninhabited islands (disadvantage).

 

• Civs which should be in:

Athens, Sparta, Crete, Macedonia, Epirus, Troy, Milete, Lydia, Thracia, Illyria and perhaps Byzantium.

 

 

• With these civs we need some new units and stuff.

BUT I propose to simply pick and choose existing units from other civs and maybe change the stats a bit

 

1. Athens >> Greek / Pericles; Hoplite (= spearman with 2 move)

2. Sparta >> ? ; UU: Spartan Phalanx ( = Phalanx)

3. Crete >> Carthage, UU: Minoan Archer

4. Macedonia >> Greek / Alexander ; UU: Hetairoi (= Carthaginian horseman)

5. Epirus >> ? / Pyrrhus of Epirus; UU: Kambsor ( = spearman + 1)

6. Troy ?

7. Milete ?

8. Lydia >> Persia / Cyrus

9. Thracia ?, UU: Thracian Peltast (spearman, withdraw 20%)

10. Illyria ?

11. Byzantium >> Byzantium

 

PS. Some unit ideas have been borrowed from The Ancient Mediterranean mod.

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I think Ozzy or someone else should finish the map. I am not a finisher, I am a rough drafter, so to speak.

 

Here is another map of the area. I feel it might be hard to really fit everyone well as so much of the territory is useless mountains/hills, but I'm sure it's doable.

 

It might be nice to put the Romans in instead of the Illyrians, and the Persians instead of the Lydians. Not really period appropriate, but it's better than 12 Greek clones and will add some variety to the game.

 

Macedonia_and_the_Aegean_World_c200.png

 

Anyway, I'm just going to wait on the mod until everyone's committed and the map is nearing completion, so someone else really needs to step in and get this going.

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The Illyria / Rome and Lydia / Persia thing I like.

 

Then we have:

1. Seleucid / Persia

2. Crete / Carthage

3. Byzantium /Byzantium

4. Illyria / Rome

 

5. for the Thracians we could take the Russians (slavian tribe)

6. and for Pergamon (or Troy) we could stretch it a bit and take the French.

 

The other ones should be Greek-type states:

 

7. Athens >> Greek / Pericles; Hoplite (= spearman with 2 move)

8. Sparta >> ? ; UU: Spartan Phalanx ( = Phalanx)

9. Macedonia >> Greek / Alexander ; UU: Hetairoi (= Carthaginian horseman)

10. Epirus >> ? / Pyrrhus of Epirus; UU: Kambsor ( = spearman + 1)

11. Milete / Caria

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If I am right, and the aim here is to create a 'real world' based game, then I cannot but think that this in an utter non-starter. Unless you play with the geography altered to such an extreme extent as to make it nothing but Greece in name alone you give none of the Peloponnesian nations a cat in hells chance. The great legacy that the ancient Hellenic cultures gave us did not come from size because they really could never grow in such lands. Even Macedonia is a poisoned chalice but at least it can expand to an extent; remembering that the expansion came from conquest alone without a scrap of diplomacy.

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Proposal:

 

I could do the first version of the map, and Ozzy or DNK could finish it?

 

A couple of things we need to know:

 

* how many players ?

Here’s a map with 11 players..

 

 

knipselgreece2.gif

 

 

• The states on the border of the map (advantage) are further away from the uninhabited islands (disadvantage).

 

• Civs which should be in:

Athens, Sparta, Crete, Macedonia, Epirus, Troy, Milete, Lydia, Thracia, Illyria and perhaps Byzantium.

 

 

• With these civs we need some new units and stuff.

BUT I propose to simply pick and choose existing units from other civs and maybe change the stats a bit

 

1. Athens >> Greek / Pericles; Hoplite (= spearman with 2 move)

2. Sparta >> ? ; UU: Spartan Phalanx ( = Phalanx)

3. Crete >> Carthage, UU: Minoan Archer

4. Macedonia >> Greek / Alexander ; UU: Hetairoi (= Carthaginian horseman)

5. Epirus >> ? / Pyrrhus of Epirus; UU: Kambsor ( = spearman + 1)

6. Troy ?

7. Milete ?

8. Lydia >> Persia / Cyrus

9. Thracia ?, UU: Thracian Peltast (spearman, withdraw 20%)

10. Illyria ?

11. Byzantium >> Byzantium

 

PS. Some unit ideas have been borrowed from The Ancient Mediterranean mod.

 

Looks perfect. :b:

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Thanks Ozzy, the additions of DNK considering the 'civ switches' are good too ;)

 

 

@st Jon: look at the civ map file on the previous page. That is definitely a playable map..

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Great map! Very thematic! :b:

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Can we get a head count now?

 

After that I can start with the map and then DNK or Ozzy could finish it up..

 

I am number one

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I am not a number! I am a free man!!

 

Ahem. I am seven

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:D I should be 6½ then, if I'm sharing with Donald...

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*sigh*... I suppose I'll join. I'm eight.

 

1. Calanthian

2. RobWorham

3. Rhothaerill

4. DNK

5. Bantams

6. donald23/Zoid

7. Kloreep

8. OzzyKP

9.

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I guess that makes me 9.

 

I rather like Epirus as good old Pyrrhus was a great man and, with his dead men, a dead cert for a story-line.

 

BTW. I don't think Byzantium works as it's a strong Civ anyway and the map position makes it even more so. Civ base or, better, both base and position really should be looked at. Don't forget that Diplo-Game does not mean pacifist game and being very powerful is a great advantage when the time comes to sign treaties.

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I agree Byzantium would be the first to drop.

 

If we have one more player then we have a brilliant set up

> just loose Byzantium, and then I can start making the map.

 

 

Another thing which might balance too strong civs is give them a weak leader.. possible candidates for a weak leader are Illyria (Rome) and Lydia (Persia).

 

PS On Pyrrhus of Epirus: he should be agressive / charismatic > his men followed him into death..

Edited by Calanthian

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