Rhoth

WPC Civ4 Diplogame set-up thread

1,324 posts in this topic

I agree with con. :tongue:

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, I just couldn't hold to that anymore. Agreeing with con. What a fun jest by me. ;)

 

It's fine if someone reveals who they are after they are finished.

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I agree with con. :tongue:

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, I just couldn't hold to that anymore. Agreeing with con. What a fun jest by me. ;)

 

It's fine if someone reveals who they are after they are finished.

 

See my signature, and then maybe you will see the folly of your ways.....................................

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Sounds awesome guys! Once I have the connection with PYT going (waiting for that canadian guy ;)) it should be no problem at all. And I'll gladly host this game.

 

About playing myself, I would love too. But, looking at my schedule, it might be more fitting to team up. Is that even a possibility? (Apart from the question if anyone even wants to team up with me ;))

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Cool. Thanks for hosting. :b:

 

Teaming up might be a possibility if someone else is interested. Maybe Zoid. He is interested in playing, but can't really start until August or later.

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Problem with teams is that they simplify the diplomacy (half the fun of MP) exponentially (rather than linearly). Given that outright militaristic domination isn't possible, that makes diplomacy the major contest and complication of the game, and reducing that severely by halving the number of diplomatic parties games the game, so to speak.

 

You have 12 players. With 6 teams, that's 15 connections. With 12 unteamed players, you have 66 connections. A huge difference.

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Although I haven't committed (yet), I would follow DNK's advice and maximize possible diplomatic interaction..

 

Problem with teams is that they simplify the diplomacy (half the fun of MP) exponentially (rather than linearly). Given that outright militaristic domination isn't possible, that makes diplomacy the major contest and complication of the game, and reducing that severely by halving the number of diplomatic parties games the game, so to speak.

 

You have 12 players. With 6 teams, that's 15 connections. With 12 unteamed players, you have 66 connections. A huge difference.

 

So don't make teams. Alliances will form themselves during gameplay (or not ;) )..

 

And yes I know you mean playing one position with a team, still wouldn't do it.. as the storywriting will be difficult /strange

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I completely agree with DNK and Calanthian. The more leaders the better in a game like this. I think Zoid was talking about it being only one case with he and Donald being a team since neither of them can commit to a full game at the moment, but both are interested in this game. If it's a case between both of them playing as a team or neither of them playing then I'll take the former.

 

As to the storytelling from a team, yeah it could be strange, but it could also be fun if they do it well. :)

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Bi-polar leader? History has plenty of them!! ;)

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Okay everyone, it has been a few days. I'm going to start sending a few polls around via PM. We need to get the map settings worked out. Depending on map type we need to either decide whether to go with:

 

    earth map: tier system or choose

    newly generated map: random nations or chosen nations

 

We also need Calanthian to decide whether or not he is playing. :) If he is then we'll have 12 players (1 of which is a team), and then Rusty Edge will possibly be a sub down the line. I'm still trying to get a few more people from the other diplogame I'm playing, but if I can't then 12 is a pretty good number too.

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12 will be a great effort! :b:

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This sounds like an awesome idea. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do it right now :( I will be eagerly watching from the sidelines, though! :)

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like i said pm me when its ready :)

 

timer 24 hours perhaps

 

map Dunno maybe conts maybe pang idc

 

Leader random for me :o

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@Kloreep. The reason for no Vassalage is actually no Capitulation, I believe it to be impossible to disable one without the other, as you cannot escape from Capitulation as we found in an early Diplo-Game.

 

From my experience of all MP games Random Events, Goodie Huts and Barbs are horrendously unbalancing. If you playing real people then it really should be skill not a RNG that decides your fate.

 

If you are still looking for players I would be interested as I enjoy the Diplo style of role-playing.

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Welcome aboard St Jon. :)

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If the game starts soon, I will not be playing, as recently 2 other Civ games have started and I picked up a game of GG War in the East against Harovan..

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@Kloreep. The reason for no Vassalage is actually no Capitulation, I believe it to be impossible to disable one without the other, as you cannot escape from Capitulation as we found in an early Diplo-Game.

 

From my experience of all MP games Random Events, Goodie Huts and Barbs are horrendously unbalancing. If you playing real people then it really should be skill not a RNG that decides your fate.

 

I strongly disagree with this, to have a believable diplo game we need to have things that happen in real life. And sometimes **** happens, sometimes you find a pot of gold. If we are to eliminate ALL elements of chance we need to have an exact copy of the map for everyone involved. And how fun is that?

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Can always mod the random events and huts to be less problematic. Change random events to a lot of +1XYZ tile things and diplomatic things, rather than the "a volcano just wiped out 30 turns' worth of work" or "you just popped 6 barbarian axemen!" or "here's 500 free beakers, good job!" Certainly doable, and I doubt anyone would complain much...

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So... I don't know if I want to play (most likely no, but perhaps my arm could be twisted) but as this seems to be the first Diplogame on WPC I am interested in helping y'all get going. I'd offer some help with the map, but DNK is a skilled map maker himself, so you should be in good hands.

 

But I'll stick around to assist you guys get started, figure out rules and the rest. I'm interested in the craft of diplogaming. :b:

 

 

(just don't ask me to do a mod, I exhausted myself trying to do something simple with Destruction of Foes).

 

((and thanks Solver for activating my account))

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Yeah, I can do a map, but it might take a week to finish, just because I'm a bit busy between work and two other diplo games now.

 

I can also probably mod the events into something that will work 100% for the diplogame, rather than something that usually just makes you pay money or lose stuff. I haven't done events before, but I think it's fairly straight-forward.

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DNK, I can live with that :) :b:

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Well, if everyone wants that, I would want to know how many people were playing and how committed they were to it, and then we could discuss the specific changes.

 

Also, I noted this for the next Apolyton diplo game, and it makes just as much sense to note it here:

Afforess made a mod specifically to increase diplomacy options, one that would really work well in a diplo game.

 

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9430951

 

New Trades:

 

Embassies

Embassies are a vital agreement that must be made before Open Borders or any form of alliance can be made with any other civilizations.

Right of Passage

Rights of Passage are a limited form of Open Borders. They only allow non-combatants and trade through the borders.

Contact

Players can sell contact with other civilizations, if they have not met the third party.

Trading Workers

Players can buy and sell workers on the market.

Trading Military Units

Siege machinery can be bought and sold to other players.

Trading Corporation HQ's

Players can sell and buy the headquarter of corporations.

 

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Thanks to Rhothaerill for raising this here.

 

I think it would make sense to draw from Apolyton's experience. The diplo game format and 'rules' have undergone constant tweeking and honing over numerous long diplo games to get them 'right', as in balanced. No need to invent the wheel.

 

The one thing I might suggest is a slightly different scoring system. As it stands now, 50% of the score comes from the story-telling vote, and 50% from the diplomacy and RP vote. The actual score in game counts for nothing, other than an indicator of how the civs are doing. I am thinking it might be good to incorporate the score somehow. As in 33%, 33%, 33%. I would be curious to see if the Apolyton crowd ever tried this approach, and whether it worked.

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Missed DNK's post. That mod sounds like a great idea for a diplogame. :b:

 

Beta, your idea also sounds good. I would like to see good gameplay be a part of the final score too.

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I strongly disagree with this, to have a believable diplo game we need to have things that happen in real life. And sometimes **** happens, sometimes you find a pot of gold. If we are to eliminate ALL elements of chance we need to have an exact copy of the map for everyone involved. And how fun is that?

 

I do agree that we can all suffer the misfortunes of an unkind world but you have to aim for an even playing field in any MP game. If, accident of geography, I start in the far north or south I will spend hugely more fighting off barbs than if I had started in a temperate area near other Civs. The plus for me should be that I can expand more quickly without human interference but this is not how it works out in practice all too often. That second city is so important and for a far distant Civ its' defence becomes far more expensive, for less reward, than for those in the centre. Worst of all worlds is the start in the centre backed by jungle, barbs by the dozen and nothing to spare to move into the better lands.

 

As for 'Goodie Huts', I like the idea of lowering their rewards/disasters as, I am assuming Tech Trades will be banned, they can give a single player far more than a bit of gold or a bit of experience. The negatives can run to a horde which, whilst not actually destroying a Civ totally, can cause such damage that a player will become disheartened and leave the game. This is not a good thing to happen.

 

Disasters, I would prefer them out but accept the compromise proposed as good and workable, can be crippling in a human game. It is a long time since I played SP but there you can survive just about anything the game throws at you, however the same is not true in MP. If I am fighting a long war and suddenly lose all use of a major production centre due to an earthquake or volcano destroying my 'Happy Buildings' then my opponent has just been given a golden opportunity! The AI might never exploit it properly but a clever human player would.

 

As it stands I like DNK's proposal which sounds fair and workable.

 

My own likes or dislikes are of little import here, I will suffer pain or gain in equal measure, but I have seen the consequences of these factors upon other Diplos and people do just quit. That is the thing to be avoided.

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