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Unorthodox

Uno's newspaper garbage.

168 posts in this topic

Can I see the cobat logs/ get an estimate of casualties please?

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I'll get the combat logs for you in a bit UnO.

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Swine:

Swine had horrendous luck, but perhaps SHOULD have seen an attack coming. However, being stuck in the middle of all human teams, I'm not entirely sure they had the EP to see the graphs. They still should have known they would be early targets...

 

Swine would have had to, from the very early stages, started playing a very diplomatic game. Considering they probably had contact with all the other human teams early, even if post Apoc war dec, they could have played upon it to get a 3 way against Apoc early on. It would have been a very different game if they had. Unfortunately, I think the early attack probably took a lot of the heart out of their team and it was just a waiting game at that point.

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UnO, not all the combat logs are still available unfortunately. It doesn't show the forces that SC sent against us in the main log anymore and the combat log itself is lengthy. So I've written down the SC units lost on their attack.

 

SC Catapults: Ahorangi, Uriuri, Rangi, Poraka, Iwi, and Tamaota all died attacking us

SC Knights: Matenga, Tatao, Ruaha, Kisu, Rahirahi, Timikara, Hakiri, and Patuhi all died attacking us

SC Rifle Torouka beat our CS Cricket

 

Now for the event log. It doesn't show what each unit actually is, but you can check our turn threads near the bottom to figure it out. Hauora, Paukena, Rau, Kawharu, and Torouka were all upgraded to rifles. The rest were normal units.

 

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Swine would have had to, from the very early stages, started playing a very diplomatic game. Considering they probably had contact with all the other human teams early, even if post Apoc war dec, they could have played upon it to get a 3 way against Apoc early on. It would have been a very different game if they had. Unfortunately, I think the early attack probably took a lot of the heart out of their team and it was just a waiting game at that point.
The BEST they could have managed would have been to involve the Vikings. SC had their arms full VERY early, and were in no position to be concerning themselves with the Northeast... Considering Apoc tried pretty hard (IMO) to get responses from the Vikings early, I really don't see that even being likely in the least.

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Hrm....this is gonna start running away pretty quick it appears? prepping for a wrapup...

 

Random observations:

 

Post count:

 

Apoc has just over double that of SC.

Viking is a very distant third.

Swine barely registers.

 

I think I account for at least half of Apoc's post count all by myself. ;)

 

Ease of reading to one WITHOUT access to in game info:

 

Rhoth kicks all kinds of ass with the turn reports.

Viking is a close second.

SC is practically unintelligable.

 

WITH access to the in game info, however:

 

Apoc and SC are very similar in function, with Vikings coming in a little less organized.

 

The difference in team setups being SC most/all member actually log into the game each turn and give input from that.

Rhoth posts detailed screenshots to the forum, and members give input from there.

 

From a historical standpoint, it's much easier to follow with the screenshots....

 

The turn reports and turn orders kind of grew out of what Harovan started in the turns he played. I just kept adding more and more info as we went on, and transferred my investigations of the other team onto the turn report instead of my spreadsheet.

 

Quick notes on opinions from the game:

 

first and foremost, map was fubar....

 

Yeah, it certainly wasn't what we had asked for. As much as I complained at the beginning though I'm not going to complain too much now. ;)

 

Swine:

Swine had horrendous luck, but perhaps SHOULD have seen an attack coming. However, being stuck in the middle of all human teams, I'm not entirely sure they had the EP to see the graphs. They still should have known they would be early targets...

 

Yeah, they had bad luck to be the center team, available to be attacked by all, but they did know that they were in the center (at least between us and the Vikings) and they still did not build any military to speak of until we attacked them. If they had played differently they could have dominated us instead of the other way around. They had the potential. It was like they expected that they wouldn't be attacked that early, since they wouldn't be if they were playing an SP game.

 

 

Vikings:

 

Vikings had a marvelous opportunity to win this game by swooping in and razing Animal Farm taking advantage of Apoc squeeze tactics before Apoc could. They chose to instead engage a protective AI in war. They were in a better position at that stage than Apoc, and very likely could have won an extended conflict with Apoc if played correctly.

 

Vikings also gave the IMPRESSION they were not interested in diplomatic relations with the other human teams. I don't feel this was actually the case, but their relative silence early led to them being target #2 by Apoc. A more aggressive approach to diplomacy could have turned things to their favor.

 

'Point defense' played in Apoc attack...probably would have lost either way, but would have dealt more damage with 'zone defense'.

 

I'll reserve other observations for now...;)

 

The Vikings were in a better position than we were throughout most of the game until we received ivory from SC. Our concentrated military build-up after that was what gave us the edge. I'm interested in finding out if they were expecting our attack, but I'm guessing not since they didn't have enough military to withstand us for a while. Even if they had played zone defense though I don't think they could have beat us. Wintercity was really the only place where they could make a decent stand since we had already lost most of our siege weapons in the battle at Nidaros. And then they had the bad luck to be attacked by the French. If that hadn't happened it would have taken us much longer to finish off Wintercity as we would have had to build a bunch of trebuchets first or lose the majority of our force like what happened to the French attack force.

 

Something else I noticed was that none of the other teams played the AI like we did. SC got into it recently, trading for some techs, but they were nowhere close to what we've done all throughout the game. We traded for everything we could, traded away whatever we could to keep it out of the hands of the other human teams as much as possible, and most importantly traded for lots of gold to make up for our lack of the financial trait (which all three others had) and gain the 4000 gold for upgrades which has likely sealed the fate of SC

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Yeah, they had bad luck to be the center team, available to be attacked by all, but they did know that they were in the center (at least between us and the Vikings) and they still did not build any military to speak of until we attacked them. If they had played differently they could have dominated us instead of the other way around. They had the potential. It was like they expected that they wouldn't be attacked that early, since they wouldn't be if they were playing an SP game.

 

Thought I basically said that. I think, not having access there, that they started down 1 path, as we were all supposed to have AI neighbors, and then you're halfway down this when you find you have human neighbors, they didn't switch gears and tried to finish what they started first. I seem to remember them having some piss poor barb luck as well.

 

The Vikings were in a better position than we were throughout most of the game until we received ivory from SC. Our concentrated military build-up after that was what gave us the edge. I'm interested in finding out if they were expecting our attack, but I'm guessing not since they didn't have enough military to withstand us for a while. Even if they had played zone defense though I don't think they could have beat us. Wintercity was really the only place where they could make a decent stand since we had already lost most of our siege weapons in the battle at Nidaros. And then they had the bad luck to be attacked by the French. If that hadn't happened it would have taken us much longer to finish off Wintercity as we would have had to build a bunch of trebuchets first or lose the majority of our force like what happened to the French attack force.

 

Again, I thought I said this. Had they focused APOC's way instead of NA's when they attacked NA, they had a hell of a shot to run away with this game.

 

Something else I noticed was that none of the other teams played the AI like we did. SC got into it recently, trading for some techs, but they were nowhere close to what we've done all throughout the game. We traded for everything we could, traded away whatever we could to keep it out of the hands of the other human teams as much as possible, and most importantly traded for lots of gold to make up for our lack of the financial trait (which all three others had) and gain the 4000 gold for upgrades which has likely sealed the fate of SC

 

I think this is the OODA loop con likes to talk about, only applied to diplomacy. You bilk the AI before anyone else can, then the AI don't have anything to trade...

Edited by Unorthodox

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I think this is the OODA loop con likes to talk about, only applied to diplomacy. You bilk the AI before anyone else can, then the AI don't have anything to trade...

 

Yes

 

We drove the AI's relationship with us, and worked it aggressively before anyone else caught on, and apparently only SC sort of did and that was late in the game.

 

In other words we drove the AI in our direction, we Observed, Orientated, Decided and Acted before anyone else.

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and I believe the Vikings lack of effort in diplomacy sealed there fate, we initially wanted to PAL up with them, they appeared to be at least disinterested for whatever reason.

 

SC however was a regular chatty Cathy so we naturally gravitated towards them.

 

Again we drove diplomacy, we out-OODA'ed the other teams, and it played out in our favor.

 

And from our crappy start we should be by all rights not about to win this game (unless something really goes wrong with SC.)

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Thought I basically said that. I think, not having access there, that they started down 1 path, as we were all supposed to have AI neighbors, and then you're halfway down this when you find you have human neighbors, they didn't switch gears and tried to finish what they started first. I seem to remember them having some piss poor barb luck as well.

 

Again, I thought I said this. Had they focused APOC's way instead of NA's when they attacked NA, they had a hell of a shot to run away with this game.

 

You did, I was just clarifying my thoughts. :)

 

As to the Swine, yeah they did have some poor barb luck, losing both a scout and a warrior to barbs. We did too though. We lost a scout and two warriors (both of whom had 4 XP)

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and I believe the Vikings lack of effort in diplomacy sealed there fate, we initially wanted to PAL up with them, they appeared to be at least disinterested for whatever reason.

 

SC however was a regular chatty Cathy so we naturally gravitated towards them.

 

Again we drove diplomacy, we out-OODA'ed the other teams, and it played out in our favor.

 

And from our crappy start we should be by all rights not about to win this game (unless something really goes wrong with SC.)

 

That's another thing I'll be interested in seeing once the game is over. I'd like to know if there was a reason behind the Vikings ignoring us, or just lack of diplomatic effort.

 

And you're correct Con, we did have potentially the worst starting position of any of the other teams. Certainly we had the lowest food bonus potential with a non-irrigated corn and a hill sheep (where SC and the Vikes had three good food sources apiece and the Swine had irrigated rice and cattle). I wouldn't necessarily call our start crappy, but we did have a few things stacked against us. At the same time though, the adversity made us think outside the box, probably more than the other teams did.

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Crappy more from a Geopolitical standpoint, although we didn't exactly get the greatest start from resource allocation either.

 

In other words, we had only two choices, make nice with the Swine and move our capitol or smack the Swine. We didn't have many options.

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Ya, and you guys (remember, I joined roughly turn 35ish), realised that early enough and acted upon it soon enough.

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We were on the warpath nearly from turn 1. Just hoping it was vs an AI...

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Ya, and you guys (remember, I joined roughly turn 35ish), realised that early enough and acted upon it soon enough.

 

OODA ;)

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