Rhoth

Foreign Affairs Discussion - Southern Cross

534 posts in this topic

Looks good except for one missed letter (pleased). I'll overlook the Eh way of spelling favorably. ;)

 

Alphabet should be finished by turn 115 or so. Depends on how soon we can get that "away" cost gone (i.e. taking the Swine capital).

 

BTW, one thing about those trades. I believe we'll have to go back and forth a bit with the trade screen as I don't think those can all be traded at once (since the early ones are prerequisites for the later ones).

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Oh one more thing...do we want to mention the Vikes recent spike in GNP without a corresponding loss in other areas? Might be an impetus to get the allying going against the "number one" civ.

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Oh one more thing...do we want to mention the Vikes recent spike in GNP without a corresponding loss in other areas? Might be an impetus to get the allying going against the "number one" civ.

 

I would rather just get this letter out, now if possible.

 

Lets get step 1 going then move on.

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Okie doke. I'll keep my nose out of it. :D

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. I'll overlook the Eh way of spelling favorably. ;)

 

 

Hey. They are colonials as well. They spell it properly. :)

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:b: Now we just need to get the game going again.

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Good

 

Now lets see what Robbie has to say.

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Let's not play SC's game for them. If we mention to SC that Viks had a power graph increase, they will know that we are watching it, and be able to surmize that we are watching all teams. Also, if we mention any time there is any sort of "bump" with any team, they will eventually expect us to tell them and do their intel for them. Overall, not good things for us - particularly as after we get rid of the viks (and I am of the opinion that WE will have to do it, not SC), then we only have one target next - and guess who that is?

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Smartass Canucks and their brothers?

 

:cute:

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I thought we wanted to keep the French around to get Ivory?

 

wtf?

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I thought it was for the wine. Go figure. :blink:

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Rob responded with this:

 

Gents,

I've been asked to confirm the tech list you sent us. You have Hunting down twice, this is obviously an error, but is the second hunting meant to be something else, or do you only have 9 techs at the moment?

Cheers,

Rob

 

Rhoth's response was:

 

Oops, no. The second hunting is just an error, not something else.

 

Blame Beta. :D

 

My response was:

 

Don't listen to Rhoth. What it means is that we researched hunting twice and we are now REALLY good at it. :)

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Received from Southern Cross

 

Greetings once again Apocalypto!

 

Great to hear your thoughts in more detail regarding tech trading. To reciprocate your open and forthcoming opening offer we would like to respond in an equally friendly manner.

 

We have already researched:

 

The Wheel

Agriculture

Hunting

Mysticism

Mining

Pottery

Animal Husbandry

Masonry

Bronze Working

Iron Working

and are just about to get Fishing.

 

We then plan to research:

 

Writing

 

After that we are not entirely certain what we are going to research and is the subject of much talk in our nation. A great deal depends on the game situation when we finish Writing, and how our talks with you go, but we are aiming at Metal Casting, Calendar, or Currency. Unfortunately, we have no interest at present in exploring the religious tech path as we see little benefit in this path in the near future, and other needs are far more pressing for our nations growth.

 

So, where do we go from here?

 

Our first proposal is that you switch straight to Alphabet once you finish researching Mathematics. We have Masonry and will be more than happy to trade it with you as soon as we can, and the sooner we combine tech research the better for both of us. We appreciate that you are having a bit of rough and tumble with The Swine, but we think a small sacrifice now will yield greater gains later.

 

Our second proposal is our initial tech trades. We suggest trading Alphabet (483) for Iron Working and Masonry (450), with more trades as soon as possible after that.

 

Please be secure in the knowdege that we have no interest in trading with other civs under the table, and would like to put our entire efforts into strengthening both our nations in relation to all the other barbarious types out there. We appreciate that exchanging Alphabet may not have been in your initial thoughts, but we are more than happy to help you on your way to Construction in return, and to provide Iron Working, a most powerful military technology to complement your martial endevours. Again, to reiterate, by exchanging Alphabet for Iron Working and Masonry, we propose to agree to a mutually exclusive trade agreement, except where technologies trades can be made for other techs not currently part of our joint tech plan i.e. religious techs etc. If you agree we can work out the finer points of this area as soon as possible.

 

We believe that by securing this historic trade agreement now, we can both move on to stronger ties in the near future, and aid each other in, shall we say, other more delicate aspects of maintaining a healthy nation in these troubled times.....

 

Please consider our proposals as soon as is convenient for you. We hope that what we offer is the foundation to a long and mutually beneficial realtionship.

 

Awaiting your considered reply,

 

Southern Cross

 

--

Kapa o pango kia whakawhenua au i ahau!

Hi aue, hi!

 

Ko Aotearoa e ngunguru nei!

Au, au, aue ha!

 

Ko Taki o Autahi e ngunguru nei!

Au, au, aue ha!

 

I ahaha!

Ka tu te ihiihi

Ka tu te wanawana

Ki runga ki te rangi e tu iho nei, tu iho nei, hi!

 

Ponga ra!

Taki o Autahi, aue hi!

Ponga ra!

Taki o Autahi, aue hi, ha!

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First, we are not switching from construction to alphabet. We're too close to finishing the Swine. No way. :)

 

Second, we'll have masonry this turn so their tech proposal is already going to be out of date before we respond. Iron working isn't a tech we really need right away anyway.

 

I think we should try to explain our reasoning for them going after the religious techs. My reasoning for it is that we can get to feudalism on that route, plus the techs on that route make getting Code of Laws and Civil Service cheaper. We may need to explain the whole tech proposal to them.

 

I can understand them wanting to get writing now since it gives libraries, so we'll probably have to let them do that, but I think heading down the path to feudalism and civil service is in both our best interests. We just need to make them see that. If they are adamant about metal casting then we can work with that since it's not a bad tech to have, but I want the techs that provide better units as soon as we can get them.

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Again, to reiterate, by exchanging Alphabet for Iron Working and Masonry, we propose to agree to a mutually exclusive trade agreement, except where technologies trades can be made for other techs not currently part of our joint tech plan i.e. religious techs etc. If you agree we can work out the finer points of this area as soon as possible.

Do I read correctly here, that they have other possibilities to trade techs? As I understand, they here propose an exclusive agreement, unless it's about religious techs, which they want to be able to trade with others?

 

If so, it makes sense they don't want to follow the religious path, since they can trade (our?) techs for those with some other team...

 

I'm just thinking out loud, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

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As far as I know (but what do I really know?) tech brokering is off, meaning you can trade only techs you have researched yourself and not gotten from others.

 

I'm against proposing them to follow the religious path. Sure, it would make sense, and be it only for Monarchy. But they clearly said they don't want them now and urging them to research them anyway (mind you a set of techs that normally have little to no priority in MP games) somehow sounds like we're trying to screw them. We all know it isn't so, but it may be perceived this way.

 

They now know about our war with the Swine and will follow our reasoning of putting much weight into Construction, and understand, that time is pressing. We might politely point at the Viking power graph, which is a threat to them as well (perhaps even more so). So as sad as it sounds, to speed up tech trading between us and them, they proabably will have to research Alphabet, after finishing Writing.

 

SC is probably the only team besides us dominated by old school demogamers with good diplomacy, and not just the "Hi, hope you have fun" type of diplomats. They're our natural partner and we should do our best to keep them in this place.

 

Lastly, what's with that gibberish they concluded their message with? Do they have collective toothache?

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Hmmm

 

I'm back to work again today so I don't have much time right now.

 

Step one is we have to get them our "This is the reason we went to war with the Swine note". In that note we should add that we are researching Masonry right now and have to in order to get construction as soon as possible and finish off the Swine. We understand there hesitation to not research the religious techs so we are taking a second look at the tech situation and will try to come up with a plan. But we appreciated there last letter and want to work with you guys kind of thing.

 

But I liked there letter. It tells me either they are totally full of bullsh1t or they want a partnership.

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Lastly, what's with that gibberish they concluded their message with? Do they have collective toothache?

 

It's a team rallying cry in Maori. It's in all their correspondances, and I gave a half-decent interpretation in the official correspondance thread if you're interested.

 

Though I'm thinking a different interpretation of the first line is in order, looking at it a second time. (Maori is one of those languages that is not really translate to writing well. It would be easier for me if I HEARD them, but in writing....too much depends on pronounciation and which syllable is emphasized...)

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FWIW, such a rallying cry is akin to issuing a challenge in Maori. "We" would be expected to beat our chests and shout out our own cry and then kill each other.

 

I think it's just them being flavorful in this instance, however.

 

But if you really want I can work up and Apache response. Or Sioux. Virtually no chance they could translate Sioux...

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I think it's just them being flavorful in this instance, however.

 

Agreed.

 

But if you really want I can work up and Apache response. Or Sioux. Virtually no chance they could translate Sioux...

 

:nod: Sioux would be great!

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Beta, I see you are idle-ing in this thread, Are you on a response? Do you need help? Im having connectivity issues, and Im on another machine so Im not sure how much time I have but I could give it a whirl unless you almost got it?

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Yep - I was writing it in word. Posting now.

 

Dear Southern Cross

 

Many thanks for your reply, your trust, and your suggestions. Before we discuss technology further, we need to clarify the situation with the Imperialist Swine. You now have contact with them, and you will see that we are at war. We have been since early in the game. Geography has not been kind to the Swine, unfortunately. They are in between the two of us, and we had no place to expand but through them. We have an effective choke on their city, but need catapults to finish the siege and hence our push to construction. I think you can appreciate that having the Swine eliminated is in both our interests, given their location.

 

Regarding technology trading, we will have completed masonry this turn and will be researching construction next. We appreciate you wanting to get writing sooner than later for libraries and to boost research. Our initial thinking on the religious techs was to get to feudalism and civil service and the military units that they enable. We are keeping a close eye on the Viking power graph.

 

That being said, there are numerous options that would still work for both our teams. We also see the merits in committing to an exclusive tech trading agreement to achieve a competitive advantage over our ‘neighbours’ and in being able to ‘support’ each other in times of need.

 

Researching alphabet after construction would see us completing it on or around turn 115. If you can research writing and alphabet sooner than that, that may be the better option, and we will start another agreed-upon tech after construction.

 

We apologize that the Swine situation and our need for construction does not allow us to adopt your proposal regarding alphabet, but we hope you see the logic behind our thinking.

 

Regards to your team and we look forward to hearing from you.

 

Beta of Apolcaypto

 

Insert Sioux dialogue here.

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