Rhoth

Foreign Affairs Discussion - Southern Cross

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We have contact with SC as of turn 79 - 900bc

 

Contact email: DELETED

 

I had a short in-game chat with Rob while I was finishing up the turn (no log) but nothing much was discussed beyond the fact that we have contact. I mentioned that Beta would be sending an official greeting soon and he said his FAM would respond quickly.

 

Also he mentioned that he was looking forward to the two middling teams (his words) being able to develop a good relationship. He can only base that on score right now, but it's promising. :D

Edited by Rhoth

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Ya we need to suck up to them quickly. That might be an indicator that the Vikes are ignoring there friendship approaches.

 

And I really don't care who we get into some sort of a relationship with, one or the other.

 

But we really should get buddy buddy with one of the two. At least doing some sort of tech coordination.

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If you don't get to it by tonight, Ill see if I can do a rough draft, but right now, I'm off for a walk then need to head to class.

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Proposed.

 

To Team Southern Cross

 

Greetings to our new neighbours! It is good to meet you. We trust your early endeavours in this new world have been fruitful.

 

We would like to explore the possibility of a developing a solid relationship between our two teams. We have the benefit of being sufficiently far apart that any pressure over geography will be minimal. Also, having a friendly border between us will enhance our mutual security. Furthermore, a sharing of our respective technological achievements could be the basis for future tech trades and the non-duplication of research.

 

Neither of us are currently leading in score, so a relationship as proposed would help offset the lead the Vikings currently enjoy. We look forward to hearing from you. We are also available to chat, if that would work better for you.

 

Regards,

 

Beta of Apocalypto

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Can we tell who they have contact with?

 

Everybody we do but the swine, I believe.

 

 

I would just drop them a quick note, nothing fancy.

Dear SC

 

Greatings from Apocalypto. Not really much to say or do at this stage of the game, but we want to keep lines of communication open. If you are interested in working out any sort of mid to longer term tech trades (our current plans put us still a bit aways from alphabet, I am afraid) we are happy to sit down and work something out.

 

--Beta

 

Something simple and direct, ya know.

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Yeah, I think you're giving away more info than we want to.

 

Hi, how are things on that side of the jungle? Interested in coordinating some research?

 

That's about all we need to discuss at this point. No need to bring up distances, or borders, or any of that.

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I understand your points, but I will argue the flip side of the coin.

 

If we come across too casual at the start, they may say, what the he11, we (SC) may as well cozy up to the Vikings.

 

Remember how we reacted to the Swine's lukewarm response when we were talking about being friendlier, much as Rob of SC has already communicated they want to be.

 

Rob has already reached out a bit further my suggesting the two middling teams may want to co-operate. I think that we should reach out a little further as well, working to build the trust that will be needed for something like this.

 

the two things I have given away, from what I can see - is 1. that we want to be friends as well, and 2. we are relatively far apart - from what we can tell with this map so far.

 

I can delete the comment on the last, and mellow out the eagerness on the first, as Uno and GK have suggested. But I do feel we need to reach out a bit.

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Agreed with Beta about suggesting we cooperate, especially since Rob was the one that suggested it first. However I don't really see any need to mention how far we are from each other or a border agreement.

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Agreed with Beta about suggesting we cooperate, especially since Rob was the one that suggested it first. However I don't really see any need to mention how far we are from each other or a border agreement.

 

I thought that's what I was saying to begin with...

 

Let's talk tech trade. Not hey neighbor, we should be able to have nice cozy borders.

 

 

FWIW, I favor heading straight for the Vikings following swine now.

 

Vikes prepping for war and being silent, SC on the far side of a jungle, composed largely of builders, and already talking more than either vikes or swine.

Edited by Unorthodox

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I thought that's what I was saying to begin with...

 

Let's talk tech trade. Not hey neighbor, we should be able to have nice cozy borders.

 

 

FWIW, I favor heading straight for the Vikings following swine now.

 

Vikes prepping for war and being silent, SC on the far side of a jungle, composed largely of builders, and already talking more than either vikes or swine.

 

Yeah I guess I misunderstood what you said. It sounded to me like you were saying to be a bit more blase about the friendship thing.

 

As to heading for the Vikings next, yeah at this point I think that is probably what will happen. However the Vikes will be a tougher nut to crack than the Swine. They pretty much match us in stats right now, with a slightly higher GNP because of the war (though our GNP will be shooting through the roof in about 10 turns). It will probably take having SC as "friends" and we also really need that ivory from the French. Elephants mixed with catapults at this point in the game (i.e. before macemen and longbows) would be a killer combo) That also means getting a trade route over there and hoping the Vikes don't beat us to the trade.

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I'll be honest in that I'm less familiar with players on the Vikes. However, I don't think we NEED elephants, and have never shied away from being even or underdog. A nice mixture of axes, cats, and ponies is just fine by me. We do need to keep SC off our ass end, however.

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I don't know the Vikes players very well either, except for Geomodder (Beta and I were in a pitboss game with him a few years ago. He easily had the best start and parlayed it into a win when the rest of us were getting tired of Civ4). They have made one move that I wouldn't have made. Their second city is an almost no growth city until they have iron working (it is settled between their gold and horses). I probably would have settled somewhere else.

 

Right now, we probably don't need elephants, but it would certainly make life easier. We'll have construction by then, and I will definitely want some horses too, at the very least for catapult destruction so we will need horseback riding anyway (the other prereq for elephants). Ivory is the only remaining piece of the puzzle. However there is another reason to acquire the second French ivory if we can...keep it away from the Vikes. If they have elephants and we don't then it could get painful for us unless we include a bunch of spears (which we'll need to anyway since they do have horses)

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As to where SC fits in this, yeah I want them on our side. They already mentioned allying to take down the "big guy" so that was very promising.

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Send the Beta letter.

 

Knowing Rob I think that's a better letter considering the audience.

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And I really don't care who we get into some sort of a relationship with, one or the other.

 

But we really should get buddy buddy with one of the two.

 

Indeed. It looks like we will swallow the Swine for expansion room, only to face the choice of which human team will be judged our next barrier to further expansion.

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I see two issues here:

 

1) If we talk about the Swine (Amazing that SC haven't contacted a neighbor yet!)

2) If we explicitly talk about uniting against the Vikings, as opposed to simply being friendly

 

The Swine being where they are, and SC already having contact with the Vikings, I lean toward being open about that, even though we probably won't mention it in this first letter. The Vikings, though, I'm inclined to tiptoe around a little for the moment. Partly because I don't want to shut the door on them - I agree they're an unlikely ally, but we just don't have the information to be sure of that.

 

So I guess I'm mainly concerned about the last paragraph. Are the Vikings actually leading us in overall research?

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So I guess I'm mainly concerned about the last paragraph. Are the Vikings actually leading us in overall research?

 

I am certain that they have fishing, hunting, archery, animal husbandry, the wheel, mining, and bronze working. Since then they've had 4 or 5 more tech advances, one probably agriculture, but I'm not sure what else. Possibly pottery and writing. I know neither of those was horseback riding or iron working

 

Once we know what their lands look like, or can see their research, I'll be able to better determine what they may have researched in the past.

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Don't talk about the swine unless they bring it up.

 

I still lean towards a KISS approach with them, but mentioning the possibility of a tech trade added in to the simple "hello" message. If they like the idea of a tech trade, they can say so and the conversation goes from there. If they don't, or don't care, they will let it drop and we know were we stand then.

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Thanks for the input guys. How does this sound...

 

To Team Southern Cross

 

Greetings to our new neighbours! It is good to meet you. We trust your early endeavours in this new world have been fruitful.

 

We would like to develop a solid relationship between our two teams. Having a friendly border between us will enhance our mutual security. Also, a good discussion regarding technology could set up future tech trades and potentially reduce the duplication of research.

 

We look forward to hearing from you. We are also available to chat, if that would work better for you.

 

Regards,

 

Beta of Apocalypto

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Still not sure about the border sentence, but I like the rest.

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How about this?

 

To Team Southern Cross

 

Greetings to our new neighbours! It is good to meet you. We trust your early endeavours in this new world have been fruitful.

 

We would like to develop a solid relationship between our two teams. Such a relationship would enhance our mutual security. Also, a good discussion regarding technology could set up future tech trades and potentially reduce the duplication of research.

 

We look forward to hearing from you. We are also available to chat, if that would work better for you.

 

Regards,

 

Beta of Apocalypto

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I agree with uno in terms of pulling out the border sentence. Way to early to talk about it, unless they want to bring it up. Else, sounds good.

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