chuft

Condenser bug?

45 posts in this topic

I have noticed in several games where I built condensers that they did not increase the raininess in all surrounding squares. In fact often they did not increase the raininess in any surrounding squares, or only one at most.

 

This seems to happen when you build a condenser on a rocky square, although terraforming the square level to rolling does not fix it after the fact. I may try to rebuild the condenser in the same square now that it is rolling to see if a second one will be better.

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I have never had the sort of problem you are experiencing before, and I use condensers alot. Only weirdness I have noticed, building one in a valley or behind a mountain causes more than just the surrounding tiles to gain rainfall. And rarely building one on top of a mountain peak might leave 1 tile unaffected(usually on the rain shadow side of the mountain) I have even build condensers in the dunes on several occasions and made them rainy.

 

I have played 99% of my games with dense cloud cover though. I have no idea if their effectiveness is diminished on a lower setting.

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I am playing on dense cloud cover right now.

 

I destroyed the condenser and built it again after doing a Terraform Level on the rocky square where I built it the first time. It still did not affect the adjacent squares, which remained "moist".

 

I loaded a much earlier save before I built either condenser and the squares were "moist" back then too.

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I mean usually condensers work fine for me, including in many places in this game.

 

I have just noticed in the past several games that if I build one on a rocky square, it often doesn't work right.

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Nope.

 

Mines don't lower the food output of a square, is the only change even remotely similar to that.

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OK, I am back to having nothing again. After some smarter people log on, you might get an answer.

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Just happened again.

 

It seems the squares that are not being "rained on more" are significantly higher in altitude than the square containing the condenser.

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Some stuff from the manual:

CONSTRUCT CONDENSER N RATE 12

Condensers collect atmospheric moisture for use in irrigation. A condenser acts

as a farm, but also increases the moisture level of every square within a twosquare

radius by +1 (if the square already has a farm or soil enricher, the condenser

replaces the farm or enricher.)

Requires Ecological Engineering.

The scale for raininess (number represents bonus nutrients):

Raininess

Arid 0

Moist 1

Rainy 2

 

So it should have gone up to Rainy, +2. You probably already know that rocky tiles always have a nut. value of 0. Their raininess can change, however.

 

The strange behaviour may be to do with the terrain. Altitude affects raininess in the way detailed here:

 

The rainfall patterns of Planet depend on the wind currents, which always blow from west to east. Since the wind carries moisture with it from the

oceans, rain tends to fall on the west side of mountain ranges. You can see

this trend when looking at a big continent — green predominates on the western coast, indicating a great deal of rainy or moist terrain, while the east coast

remains dry and barren. Rainfall determines the amount of nutrients that may be collected, so often the west coast of a continent proves a better source of nutrients than the east coast. On flat continents or small islands, no elevations exist to trap the rainfall, and so moisture tends to be more evenly distributed. Also, river valleys usually have a reasonable amount of rain, so a river running through a dry area can be a good base location.

 

Perhaps you have a series of slopes that are messing up local rainfall patterns? I don't know whether condensers are supposed to override that, however.

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I'd swear I've seen this discussed multiple times, but do bnot remember the conclusions reached.

 

Shouldn't this thread be in Help, Bugs & Tips?

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..Shouldn't this thread be in Help' date=' Bugs & Tips?[/quote']

fixed

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Good.

 

Do you remember anything about this, Mr. President? I'd swear I've heard it before...

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CONSTRUCT CONDENSER N RATE 12

Condensers collect atmospheric moisture for use in irrigation. A condenser acts

as a farm, but also increases the moisture level of every square within a twosquare radius by +1 (if the square already has a farm or soil enricher, the condenser replaces the farm or enricher.)

Requires Ecological Engineering.

 

That is simply untrue the condenser does not replace a farm/enricher. you can improve a tile to include all 3 improvements which boosts nutrients alot.

Nutrient calculations from my observations:

((Rainfall+Jungle bonus(if present)+nutrient resource(if present)+farm)*150%If soil enricher)*150%If condenser

 

You can get up to 13 nutrients in a jungle square if it has a nutrient resource in it. [+2for rainy +1 for jungle +2 for nutrient bonus +1 for farm]= 6 *150% for enricher = 9 *150% for condenser = 13.5 The decimal is disregarded as far as I can tell so you end up with 13

You can even with enough patience turn the great dunes from an arid uselessness to producing 6 nutrients per turn with the same terrain improvements even without nutrient resources.

 

Also it is not a 2 square radius(unless they are considering the tile in which it is built to be a 1 square radius? or you build it on a rainy tile that is surrounded by moist tiles.) They do not normally function to that big of an extent unless there are multiple condensers working together in close proximity, or if u build them in valley or on the rain shadow side of a mountain, where the condenser has a chance of interacting with the various existing rainfall patters to make them bigger.

 

Some notable exceptions to the 1 square radius rule i have observed:

I have witnessed a straight line rainfall increase when condensers are built on the west coast of a larger relatively flat landmass that is between 0-999 elevation. Where a condenser is built 2to3 squares away from the ocean causing all tiles directly to the east diagonal of the condenser to become moist, this only seems to happen on flat arid terrain and have never noticed this effect to create rainy tiles in that direction only moist.

 

Condensers do increase rain levels by +1 in the tile it is built and the tiles immediately surrounding that tile. So if built in an arid square that square would turn moist and so would the surrounding tiles if u then build another condenser next to the already built condenser the +1 rain fall bonuses will overlap making rainy tiles and since rainy tiles can not be adjacent to arid tiles, the arid tiles next to the newly created rainy tiles then become moist. Also if you happen to have a moist belt running through Arid terrain u can get similar results with just 1 condenser because of the same rule that rainy tiles cannot be adjacent to arid tiles.

 

Unfortunately the one thing I have never observed is the situation chuft is experiencing. I have had a few condensers over the time I have played that didn't function properly, but these were 1 or 2 tile discrepancies where something that should have become rainy stayed moist(this usually happened near forests which I believe also effect rainfall patterns as well, but to what extent I am unsure) I have never noticed anything in which they didn't increase rainfall at all in any surrounding tiles.

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The manual has been known to be incorrect before.

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I believe the lay of the land has a big part to play in deciding the extent of a condensor's improvement to moisture in surrounding tiles. I've definitely experienced what chuft is talking about... the manual is definitely over simplified. Placing condensors can be really strategic, in a given area 2 condensors can increase rainy tiles from 2 to 9 or even more. Peaks and other geographical features interfere with moisture available to collect in a W to E fashion, try lowering terrain to the west and see if your condensors increase rain as they should.

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Should I be happy that they've apparently included a marginally realistic and definitely quite cool system or sad that they apparently couldn't document anything competently?

 

I think I'll be happy.

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I am just always on the lookout for bugs since I keep tweaking everything and I want to be aware of any signs of something breaking down in the bowels of the ship....

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Should I be happy that they've apparently included a marginally realistic and definitely quite cool system or sad that they apparently couldn't document anything competently?

 

I think I'll be happy.

 

I often find myself feeling a little of both with most things in this game. There are alot of features that are very good ideas, but they fail to tell you how most of these features actually work.

 

Most notably the ability to build a farm on a forest and have 5 minerals added to the home city of the former. That is potentially a very useful strategy, unfortunately I have only learned about it last week when I was reading some old game of the month threads. I admit I have not read every word in the datalinks or manual, but I have read alot of it. In both I have never come across anything that would remotely suggest you could gain mineral production in this manner.

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I like it when games hide how they work from the user a little, it gives a feeling of discovery when you do find them.

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I can understand your point of view, but things shouldn't be overly cryptic or next to impossible to discover like some of the stuff i have found to be in SMAC.

 

Since this thread is about condensers I will use them as an example. I believe their description is sufficient enough to comprehend their purpose and how they can be used effectively. They do not give all of their information and this could fall under your discovery idea. On the other hand the rainfall mechanics of this game are described in almost no detail at all. Sure they cover the rain shadow effects of mountains, but there are so many other factors that the game doesn't even try to describe. This is the sort of cryptic stuff I dislike.

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I don't like that they don't work as described, if they had a more general or accurate description I would be happy with the uncertainty.

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I often find myself feeling a little of both with most things in this game. There are alot of features that are very good ideas, but they fail to tell you how most of these features actually work.

 

Most notably the ability to build a farm on a forest and have 5 minerals added to the home city of the former. That is potentially a very useful strategy, unfortunately I have only learned about it last week when I was reading some old game of the month threads. I admit I have not read every word in the datalinks or manual, but I have read alot of it. In both I have never come across anything that would remotely suggest you could gain mineral production in this manner.

 

This will be in my next datalinks update, I just haven't had much spare time recently

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I often find myself feeling a little of both with most things in this game. There are alot of features that are very good ideas, but they fail to tell you how most of these features actually work.

 

Most notably the ability to build a farm on a forest and have 5 minerals added to the home city of the former. That is potentially a very useful strategy, unfortunately I have only learned about it last week when I was reading some old game of the month threads. I admit I have not read every word in the datalinks or manual, but I have read alot of it. In both I have never come across anything that would remotely suggest you could gain mineral production in this manner.

 

From footnote #3 on p. 54 of the SMAC manual:

 

Harvesting a forest square (i.e., building any enhancement other than a road in that square) yields a one-time bonus of 5 minerals.

 

However, I couldn't find a reference to this feature in the datalinks.

 

Petek

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There is an in-game message every time it happens....

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