Dolgorukov

Morgan Finances

99 posts in this topic

You can also attach images to posts and link to them to display. My albums stopped filling up so fast since I discovered that trick recently...

Share this post


Link to post

attachment.php?attachmentid=4163&stc=1&d=1268103763

 

Want to turn your attention to this system. We need to decide how we'll be distributing energy assets of the faction.

 

Here you can see that at the beginning, all the starting energy was equally split among the bases. Any energy gained by exploration was also split equally and added to the assets of each base. At the end of 2110, Morgan Industries and Morgan Interstellar financed their base improvements by borrowing energy assets from the other two governors. I used a similar mechanism to 10 year bonds.

 

So in 2120, Morgan Mines and Morgan Transport will be able to request repayment from M. Industries and M. Interstellar for their generous loans in 2010. If it is not possible to repay the full amounts, the remaining will have to be financed in the form of bonds once again, possibly issued/sold to different governors and at an interest the governors will agree on. We'll leave this to the players to work out the details. If this is not possible, then there may have to be a transfer of assets, like terraformers or military units to pay for the debt.

 

What do you guys think, shall we adopt this one?

NoCorpModelFinances2101-2112start.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
... If this is not possible, then there may have to be a transfer of assets, like terraformers or military units to pay for the debt.

I was thinking, that actually nothing stops us from producing stuff like units and then selling them to other bases. E.g. Morgan interstellar may have in the future excellent mineral production. why not make few scouts or formers or garrison units and sell it to other bases?

What do you guys think, shall we adopt this one?

This one looks very good too. However, the one in which there is NPC (non-player character) of CEO Morgan with his Morgan Industries Corporation is very interesting also. Like his company is dominant, at least in the beginning, serves a role as a buffer (it is rich).

 

how about possibility of more than 4 bases/companies? I was thinking, we now have 4 such economic entities, and we may be at the limit of our roleplay capacity here. But let us say, some new player in 20 turns from now decide to start a new base/company. What then?

Share this post


Link to post

...

 

how about possibility of more than 4 bases/companies? I was thinking, we now have 4 such economic entities, and we may be at the limit of our roleplay capacity here. But let us say, some new player in 20 turns from now decide to start a new base/company. What then?

 

Well we can't create colony pods for them out of thin air. They'd either have to buy an existing base or pay a governor to produce a colony pod.

 

But where would they get the starting capital?

 

The only methods I can think of are by either borrowing money from the governors or from CEO Morgan's Monopolistic Corporation. A new player may also acquire a base in the unfortunate event that an existing governor has to sell off some of his assets to avoid bankruptcy, one such asset could be a base or a colony pod, which could be scooped up by the highest bidder, in this case a new player who has borrowed the funds from The Corporation.

 

So yes I see how the existence of an independent entity like The Corporation really adds a lot of room to maneuver in the extended role-playing aspect of the game.

 

My only concern is getting everyone on the same page with respect to the nature and existence of this entity that we refer to as "The Corporation"

 

I suspect that there may be a few people watching this game from the sidelines and thinking that "The Corporation" is the same thing as the entire Morgan Faction. Of course they would be misleading themselves.

 

The corporation really does not hold an interest in the well-being of the base governors and their citizens unless the health and survival of these bases is directly linked to the corporation's profits.

 

This is an important discussion, especially for anyone who is the Turn Player, because the Turn Player ends up manipulating the independent units that belong to the Corporation. When the time comes to evaluate what kind of risks the corporation is willing to take with its assets, the Turn Player better know who he is working for when he is moving that independent rover or scout patrol. He better understand what value these units hold to the corporation.

 

At this point I'm hoping that our current Turn Player (Vishniac) understands whose interests he represents when he elects to send out detached isolated green independent units into an ocean of fungus with aggressive Native Life oozing out of Planet's every pore.

 

The corporation isn't always going to place the faction's interests before its own. That's why I wanted to see some of the SMACers who are watching from the sidelines, to actually take up the role of shareholders of the Corporation and ensure that this entity has the best fighting chance of maintaining its position of dominance.

Share this post


Link to post

I was thinking, that every player could start with some basic EC number, maybe 10 EC?

 

And we could have like a "background" citizens NPC characters, that we could say: they are other regular faction members. The NPC could be also shareholders in corporation and other companies. They would provide needed ECs that we lack, but the price would be - they also own the stuff!

 

In general, the EC that we use here is something more, that just is in-game currency. We do calculate them 1:1, but we probably also understand, that all assets in the faction are worth much more. So let's say it is ok to have all faction people (players and NPC) to have some wealth of 10 EC at the start.

Share this post


Link to post
...

 

At this point I'm hoping that our current Turn Player (Vishniac) understands whose interests he represents when he elects to send out detached isolated green independent units into an ocean of fungus with aggressive Native Life oozing out of Planet's every pore.

 

...

I think we are doing fine in that aspect. If you think about it - taking risks can bring new opportunities. And from killed mindworms and unity pods they already brought to Corporation some assets worth almost as much as the 4 scouts are worth. Well, I would say even more! Scout rover is like 2 scout patrols, and we have like 45 EC from exploration?

 

It is also difficult to put a price on exploration, but future events, maybe contacts that would yield lucrative trade treaties are obvious here.

Edited by Mart

Share this post


Link to post

yes you're absolutely right, exploration has been extremely fruitful for the corporation.

 

 

Here is the financial status so far, this one is back to having the corporation hold the energy grid monopoly. Morgan Transport is no longer in debt!

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=4211&stc=1&d=1268349842

MY2113endFinances.jpg

2113eMorganFinancesComplete_v101.zip

Edited by Dolgorukov

Share this post


Link to post

Some considerations regarding facilities in a base and their impact to financial system. I hope this will not make things too complicated, but rather help keep the system reasonable and working well.

 

Headquarters, 5, 0, None, Disable, Efficiency

No upkeep. But in case of needed rebuild could be paid by The Corporation.

Children's Creche, 5, 1, EthCalc, Disable, Growth/Effic/Morale

Base has clear benefits of improved these 3 areas. Indirect, but clear help to finances.

Recycling Tanks, 4, 0, Biogen, EcoEng2, Bonus Resources

Clear impact to base finances.

Perimeter Defense, 5, 0, DocLoy, Disable, Defense +100%

Impact to base safety.

Tachyon Field, 12, 2, ProbMec, Disable, All Defense +100%

Impact to base safety.

Recreation Commons, 4, 1, Psych, SentEco, Fewer Drones

Clear impact to base finances - drone reduction - better work - more profits.

Energy Bank, 8, 1, IndEcon, QuanMac, Economy Bonus

Well... :) +50%

Network Node, 8, 1, InfNet, HAL9000, Labs Bonus

And I would point here important fact - what would be a reason for base Governor to have this facility, if it costs 1 EC/turn. There should be some EC benefit.

Biology Lab, 6, 1, CentEmp, Disable, Research and PSI

As above, but also there is impact to quality of native life-based military -> base safety.

Skunkworks, 6, 1, Subat, Disable, Prototypes Free

That would need some decision too. We could always want other bases to do the dirty work of expensive prototyping.

However, it would work ok, considering, that there is undocumented skunkworks ability to waive building item switch mineral penalty.

Hologram Theatre, 6, 3, PlaNets, Disable, Psych and Fewer Drones

I would call it efficiency - drone quelling.

Paradise Garden, 12, 4, SentEco, Disable, +2 Talents

Efficiency - drone quelling. And possible benefits of Golden Age!

Tree Farm, 12, 3, EnvEcon, Disable, Econ/Psych/Forest

Yet again, +50% EC! and all the other...

Hybrid Forest, 24, 4, PlaEcon, Disable, Econ/Psych/Forest

As above.

Fusion Lab, 12, 3, Fusion, Disable, Econ and Labs Bonus

The same issue as Network Node.

Quantum Lab, 24, 4, Quantum, Disable, Econ and Labs Bonus

there is economy bonus, but something for the research would not be bad. 4 EC/turn is expensive...

Research Hospital, 12, 3, Gene, Disable, Labs and Psych Bonus

Efficiency - drone quelling, but also safty against desease.

Nanohospital, 24, 4, HomoSup, Disable, Labs and Psych Bonus

As above

Robotic Assembly Plant, 20, 4, IndRob, Disable, Minerals Bonus

Increase of production indirect, but clear benefit to base finances.

Nanoreplicator, 32, 6, NanEdit, Disable, Minerals Bonus

As above.

Quantum Converter, 20, 5, QuanMac, Disable, Minerals Bonus

As above.

Genejack Factory, 10, 2, Viral, Disable, Minerals; More Drones

As above. And screw the drones.

Punishment Sphere, 10, 2, MilAlg, Disable, No Drones/-50% Tech

Well, military influence is clear, especially when considering free market. Also drone effect is not to be disregarded. what may need recognition is again research. Because faction as a whole will suffer slower technology rate. It could be in this respect somehow penalized.

Hab Complex, 8, 2, IndAuto, Disable, Increase Population Limit

Indirect influence to base finances.

Habitation Dome, 16, 4, Solids, Disable, Increase Population Limit

As above

Pressure Dome, 8, 0, DocFlex, Disable, Submersion/Resources

Just base safety. Economy - like recycling tanks.

Command Center, 4, 1, Mobile, Disable, +2 Morale:Land

Military benefits.

Naval Yard, 8, 2, DocInit, Disable, +2 Morale:Sea, Sea Def +100%

As above.

Aerospace Complex, 8, 2, DocAir, Disable, +2 Morale:Air, Air Def +100%

As above. Plus whole economy stuff from future satellites - lack of it makes the base to get half the amount!

Bioenhancement Center, 10, 2, Neural, Disable, +2 Morale:ALL

Military benefit.

Centauri Preserve, 10, 2, CentMed, Disable, Ecology Bonus

Not clear for now. Let us say, we do not want fungus to destroy expensive terraforming, so it is efficiency.

Temple of Planet, 20, 3, AlphCen, Disable, Ecology Bonus

As above

Psi Gate, 10, 2, Matter, Disable, Teleport

Military benefits. Efficiency in transport.

Covert Ops Center, 10, 2, Algor, Disable, Stronger Probe Teams

Brood Pit, 8, 2, CentGen, Disable, Police/Morale

efficiency - drone quelling.

Aquafarm, 8, 1, PrPsych, Disable, Sea Nutrients

Indirect influence to base finances.

Subsea Trunkline, 12, 4, PlaEcon, Disable, Sea Minerals

as above.

Thermocline Transducer, 8, 0, AdapEco, Disable, Sea Energy

It just brings more raw energy! Not giving directly EC, but helping.

Flechette Defense System, 12, 2, NewMiss, Disable, Missile Defense

Very safety oriented.

Subspace Generator, 60, 5, SingMec, Disable, Alien Victory

Aliens?

Geosynchronous Survey Pod, 16, 4, NewMiss, Disable, Increase sight\sensor bonus

Safety benefits.

Share this post


Link to post

So summarizing:

 

All the direct, indirect, military, safety, etc. impacts are clearly affecting base finances. I think it does not need much more explanation, but we could make such.

 

The only thing I have now as very not clear is the research. This pertain to all facilities benefiting lab points. They cost upkeep, and bases could have some incentive to have them.

 

I was thinking of this addition to base finances:

- Bases are paid by The Corporation for the research points they generate in amount 1EC/1 lab point.

- Technologies are "property" of the Corporation. So e.g. when Morganities sell techs to other AI factions - the income is added to The Corporation. So we could imagine, that although they pay for research, potentially, there is benefit of EC returned in the form of sale.

- All technologies could be considered as "wealth" in this respect, that The Corporation assets would include Techs with the EC amount corresponding roughly to what it was costing to research them, or what itwas costing to buy them.

- We could decide yet how to treat technologies probed by probe teams, but if we decide, that such actions are factional rather than lead by bases, it would solve this problem.

 

Now, as you think about it is worth building Network node, as it gives a base +50% EC.

Punishment sphere would be "punished" for lower research rate by getting half of the lab payment in EC.

Share this post


Link to post

- Bases are paid by The Corporation for the research points they generate in amount 1EC/1 lab point.

 

- Technologies are "property" of the Corporation.

 

- All technologies could be considered as "wealth" in this respect, that The Corporation assets would include Techs with the EC amount corresponding roughly to what it was costing to research them, or what itwas costing to buy them.

 

Keeping track of this info is too complicated in my opinion. Furthermore if the corporation owns the tech then all base governors will be expected to pay for the right to use this tech. Think property rights and patent laws. I believe we should just keep research the domain of the Federal Government, which decides how energy is being allocated.

 

 

Now, as you think about it is worth building Network node, as it gives a base +50% EC.

Punishment sphere would be "punished" for lower research rate by getting half of the lab payment in EC.

 

Once again, keep research as the domain of the Federal Government. The federal Government will compensate base governors for investment into research oriented infrastructure. Let's minimize any more need for complex accounting.

 

E.g. Rushing Network nodes at Morgan Mines a cost of 100 EC, means splitting that cost among all base governors. The governor will also present a bill to the Federal Government for the opportunity cost suffered while building network nodes. Naturally the construction of such facilities needs the approval of the Federal Government in order to get the funding.

Share this post


Link to post

no, my proposed solution does not address the upkeep costs that a base absorbs while holding on to network nodes.

 

I'm looking at a system where the Government would reward Base Governors for additional contributions to the Faction's Lab output. Since the Government is basically made up of Governors, this will translate into additional taxation and redistribution of federal revenue among base governors in such a way that it rewards research output.

Share this post


Link to post

well Mart brings up an issue that cannot be ignored, and that is the need to reflect the contribution that a base makes to the faction's research.

 

I've modified the spreadsheet to keep track of lab contributions. This new system also sees a transfer of energy credits from labs-poor bases to lab-rich bases.

 

For example, suppose there are only two Morganite bases on the planet.

 

Base A: +6 Labs/turn

Base B: +4 Labs/turn

 

The average output is +5 Labs/turn.

 

What happens under the new system is that Base B ends up automatically buying 1 Lab point every turn from BaseA in order to even out the research:

 

Base A: +6-1 = 5 Labs/turn

Base B: +4+1 = 5 Labs/turn

 

This transfer of energy credits is shown in the "inter-base transfers due to Labs contribution" section of the spreadsheet. In MY 2102, Morgan Interstellar ends up paying M. Industries 1EC for the extra Research point that M. Industry contributes. Its a way for Morgan Interstellar to make up for its lack-lustre performance in research

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=4275&stc=1&d=1268529428

 

 

As you will see in the screenshot below, research is a significant source of revenue for Morgan Industries during MY2101-2110, and results in faster accumulation of wealth as is reflected in the Start of Year Balances section.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=4276&stc=1&d=1268529428

 

 

I went a step further and modified the spreadsheet for the years of 2111-and on wards. From now on base incomes and labs contributions are going to be grouped by Companies before deciding how much money should be transferred for research-funding purposes. This is to make sure that Base governors are rewarded for building new bases, and that new bases are not penalized for poor research.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=4277&stc=1&d=1268529428

 

 

catch the full story in the spreadsheet attached below.

MY2101-2110_LabsContrib.jpg

MY2101-2110_Labs_BaseBalances.jpg

MY2111-2114_LabsContrib_Company.jpg

2114eMFCorpCombined_Labs_v105.zip

Edited by Dolgorukov

Share this post


Link to post

Oh yeah, Morgan Mines Ltd. should be changed to Trevino Enterprises in the screenshots in the previous post :)

Share this post


Link to post
Oh yeah, Morgan Mines Ltd. should be changed to Trevino Enterprises in the screenshots in the previous post :)

Does Mart want it to be changed in the game as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Does Mart want it to be changed in the game as well?

If you mean Morgan Mines name changed, then no. I would keep this base name. Companies soon will be multi-base entities.

 

So Trevino Ent. will refer to a group of bases. We can later see, if some name changes are better, but for now, maybe not.

Share this post


Link to post
...

 

I've modified the spreadsheet to keep track of lab contributions. This new system also sees a transfer of energy credits from labs-poor bases to lab-rich bases.

 

...

I think it is very good system. Research is not exchanged into energy, better solution than I proposed.

Share this post


Link to post

attachment.php?attachmentid=4339&stc=1&d=1268773944

 

 

I really like the fact that the economic strength of Morgan Industries is more accurately reflected when we recognize the value of research output of each base. Glad we're not overlooking research contributions anymore.

2115eMFCorpCombined_Labs_v105.jpg

2115eMFCorpCombined_Labs_v105.zip

Share this post


Link to post

I'm relieved to see this too.

We might need now to account for our tangible fixed assets (i.e. formers, scouts, etc.)

Share this post


Link to post

these assets are not very liquid, its very difficult to convert them to energy. I mean the fastest way to convert a former into energy is to disband it and use its minerals for the production of a base improvement which will be scrapped and recycled into energy as soon as it is completed.

 

On the other hand, these assets can vary in value depending on the global situation. If someone REALLY needs a former, and you can deliver it quickly and conveniently, then they may be willing to pay substantially more for it than what it cost for you to acquire it in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post

We may not want to assign value to everything.

However, future strategic units (current ones are independent) should be valuable, thus giving an incentive to build some when needed. I think especially about foil explorers.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now