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Vishniac

Architecture for the DG game

39 posts in this topic

These are a few thoughts about the definitive architecture we want for this game. With more units and more options, we are reaching a point where it's not efficient anymore to have everybody voting on everything.

 

I propose a system of governors: I'd say we give one base + its former + its xB scout to someone. He would also get an hinterland that he's responsible to colonize (or he colonizes wherever he can and he's responsible for the new land/sea).

Now, it would be up to him to determine his policy for his region: what to terraform, what to build, rush or not...

 

That could lead to that 'extended' single player that people wanted: after 2110, we could begin to implement some internal council where governors would have more weight in decisions based on their population (or contributing money, or both...or more. Contribution to exploration with new units, SP built in one's region/city,... I'm sure some can come with creative equations! :D).

Since the objective of early game is ICS-ing fast and having well-rounded cities when reaching Automation, collective and individual goals would be the same while providing much roleplay and each player its playing style while assuming responsibilities. That would limit the micromanagement (each player to focus on one region/city or one domain: science, exploration,...) instead of fiddling with every citizen everytime and having to post indigest long recommendations.

 

Scout 1-4 and the Rover would be out of governors hands since they are considered Strategic Forces (dealing with exploration and meeting other factions).

 

Decisions like use of federal money (to rush), energy allocation, and far-reaching strategic decisions (research, diplomacy, exploration, SPs building) would be decided in council. Or we could appoint someone as Secretary of Treasure: either he decides, or we vote but his vote determines if there's a draw.

 

That's my view of how it could be cool. Less micro for everyone, more fun for all, and a bit of competition as well as cooperation.

(Like Adam Smith would have said: each region to do the best for it shall ultimately do the best for the entire Morgan Corporation. :cool:)

 

It would be fine to have it ready for 2111. So discuss it, post your own idea and eventually we'll make a poll to choose between System A, B, C...

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Something to contribute to discussion:

 

Economy distribution:

Bases collect energy, then it is divided between eco-psych-labs.

Economy gives EC (energy credits). How about, a base keeps part of the economy and the rest is given to faction general funds (Faction Bank? Morgan Bank?). Let's say 50% each turn of what is visible on economy window in base info screen. We can even keep track of float values, e.g. 3 economy would split into 1.5 + 1.5

Any EC income from other sources would go to general funds, like income from selling techs, etc. but paying for techs to AI would draw from general funds, not bases.

 

Initially a base could get some start-up EC credits.

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How will we raise armies and handle garrisons?

 

Perhaps each governor is required to support a standing army of a given size and elements of this may be given to strategic command on request?

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How will we raise armies and handle garrisons?

 

Perhaps each governor is required to support a standing army of a given size and elements of this may be given to strategic command on request?

Garrisons (infantry) would be the responsibility of governors. Of course, those with border cities will have to be especially careful!

 

For a standing army, one can imagine different mechanisms:

- decision of the council imposed on a governor

- supporting a strategic unit (with out-of-the-base-limits capability) could give more votes/advantages to the governor.

- number of strategic units based on the minerals by base (ex: 6min = 1 unit, 9min = 2 units,...)

 

As the Morganites, we will probably run Free Market as soon as we get Rec Commons and thus the standing army will be a minimum except for maritime exploration or time of war (war that can be fought with probes and money...if Mart didn't put the Believers as our neighbors!:D ).

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What with headquarters base? Will it be given to a governor, or maybe Faction Leader would govern it, as a special district?

 

Will governors be nominated by XO, or faction members be asked to apply for it?

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Not sure here at SMAC/SMACX, but at CIV governors was the thing that made very poor

play, as each governor didn't know what others will do, so no strategy, poor play.

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we are playing singleplayer, so there is room for some inefficiency due to communication. Besides, there is a person overseeing this - faction leader - presently XO, who would watch over some general direction.

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This is a very interesting topic, I'd say that in the roleplay side of the game, the base governors would be elected by the shareholders of Morgan Industries Corp. But to continue with this line of thinking I'd need to assign a major shareholder-character to each person participating in this game, specifying the fraction of the Morgan Pie that they own. (The weight of their vote would of course be directly proportional to their share)

 

The Energy Reserves would be considered the liquid assets of the Morgan Industries Corp. Of course at some point we will have dividend pay outs, so parts of the reserves will be directly tied to specific shareholders as the wealthy beneficiaries will keep their energy credits within the Morgan Banking system. They can use these energy credits to give incentives to sway other shareholders to vote on management issues, by simply transferring ownership of their energy credits to their business partners. It will be everyman for himself in trying to generate the most amount of wealth during the game, while not allowing personal greed to sink the entire ship!

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You know how the Morgan faction starts out with 100 EC more than any other faction? Well I'd justify that by the fact that this faction is an industrial conglomerate and that the funds come from big business tycoons buying into Morgan's dream of harnessing the wealth of a rich, fertile, virgin planet.

 

In a sense, Morgan attains the funds by selling shares of his fledgling empire to his tycoon buddies.

 

We should take the roles of these very wealthy people and make our investments by buying bases. Each one of us will have a number of EC equivalent to 100 divided by the number of players playing these roles. In other words, the Starting bonus EC are evenly distributed between us.

 

To the highest bidder will go the prize. So if Mart for example would have his eye on Morgan Industries, then he could make a bid using his energy reserves. However another player may outbid him by combining reserves with another player and becoming co-owners.

 

For example: Ali and BU enter a partnership and use their combined energy reserves to make a bid on Morgan Industries. If they win the bid, then they will end up splitting the ownership of Morgan Industries 50-50 and thereby splitting all future income from the base.

 

Naturally anything the base produces will be the property of Ali & BU Enterprises.

 

Players may also choose to simply lend their energy reserves at the start of the game to others at some interest, if they wish to pass up the opportunity to own some prized Morgan real-estate. We could simulate this by the following example:

 

Ali & BU Enterprises issue simple-interest bonds (for purchase by other players) with some specified date of maturity.

Edited by Dolgorukov

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Re governorship:

 

I think it may be appropriate to find out who, and how many players are interested in being a base governor. We try to keep this game dynamic, but I noticed, many players mostly watch the game. they may not be into sudden increase of involvement. And also, I don't want anyone to feel obliged to have large responsibility of having the game running. I would be for players applying themselves to govern bases, or as Dolgorukov proposes to buy bases.

 

======

Re financial system proposed by Dolgorukov:

 

It looks very interesting. All players wanting to be in-game businessmen would have their own companies, firms, etc. Bases would be actually owned by these companies.

 

Amount of micromanagement would be some problem though, but maybe keeping an excel spreadsheet would help? And for anything in the game, we would have to keep track of actual price. like every former is worth something, a base with network node is worth more than similar base but without the network node. Each facility may have its price.

 

So, what do you think about Dolgorukov proposal regarding this part of our faction? I think I would try this.

 

However, for military I think some form of factional government would be better, unless it is better to have it all private?

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However, for military I think some form of factional government would be better, unless it is better to have it all private?
You mean...like Blackwater? :D

No thanks! Bases have their garrisons, formers, perhaps some patrolling rover for which the governor/shareholder would be responsible and there is a federal military.

 

Dolgorukov's ideas are somewhat the same as mine but with that touch of roleplay that I couldn't add. We are a Corporation. :cool:

Excel sheet would be a little too much. No need to calculate everything in a base, just the output: population (important for planetary council), energy, lab-points, and federal units supported. Now, sure, some creative equation(s) are needed.

Federal strategy needs to have the weight of everyone determined for them to vote.

There are also those without much money but with key fonctions. Could get a fixed % of the vote.

 

Take myself: I can take ownership of a city/region. But what about the conflict of interest with having military forces under my command?

- Major Dorn! Hannibal ad portas! 2 Spartan rovers threaten my base, I need some airstrike FAST!

- You do know, I am sure, that one turn of airstrikes will cost you 50EC, doesn't you? :D

 

Just joking...or not.

For now, as you said, we need to know who's interested in managing a city/region.

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WHat it involves actually doing is going to have to be worked out/explained before I'll commit.

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Whatever the details of the system, you (and anybody interested) will be responsible for one city (or 2 if volunteers are scarce) and you decide alone for its production, its local units, the terraforming of its tiles, production of colony pods and colonization of where you want.

You'll take part in the Board of Directors to vote on general issues (SPs, diplomacy, war, exploration, research).

 

You'll just have to post your orders in the turn thread for the executive to play them.

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I suppose that answers my questions well enough. I need to think about this.

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Maybe a thread asking applicants to submit governorship applications?

 

- name

- which base

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======

Re financial system proposed by Dolgorukov:

 

Amount of micromanagement would be some problem though, but maybe keeping an excel spreadsheet would help? And for anything in the game, we would have to keep track of actual price. like every former is worth something, a base with network node is worth more than similar base but without the network node. Each facility may have its price.

 

Yes I was thinking along the lines of a spreadsheet, but the only thing you would have to keep track of is yearly energy balances and energy reserve ownership.

 

So basically we'd need to keep track of how much energy each base has contributed to the Morgan Energy Grid and be able to breakdown the ownership of the total Morgan Energy reserves amongst players.

 

Opening the Energy Banks screen of the game provides the information on energy net flows per base,

it would have to be manually input into the spreadsheet.

 

You don't have to keep track of base assets, because you simply assume that anything a base supports, belongs to that base. The worth of a former will depend on what others are willing to pay for it. At the very least it will be worth 10 minerals to you if you choose to disband it, or you might be able to sell it for a more attractive sum of EC to Ali & BU Enterprises if they should happen to be in need of a former.

 

Privatized Armed Forces

I would say that the army needs to be privatized in order to roll with the financial system and to retain that morganite flavour.

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Okay I've wrestled with this idea for the past 2 evenings, trying to give it life in the form of an elegant spreadsheet that wouldn't be too complicated to use and...

 

And got my butt kicked :surrender:

 

Keeping track of how much energy each base generates at the start of each turn is not too bad. But keeping track of how much of the energy reserves belong to each governor, based on that base's contribution to the energy grid and rushed-production expenditures adds complexity that scares even me.

 

To sum it up, I don't have a practical means of realizing the sort of decentralization in faction finances I proposed earlier without causing everyone a headache.

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Yes, maybe let's continue with something simpler first. some easy to schedule EC distribution would be good for start, and then let us see how it goes.

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Listing bases in order of preference

 

Morgan Transport

Morgan Mines

Morgan Interstellar

Morgan Industries

 

 

 

Hopefully I won't screw up too badly

 

Any base,

and I would wait, until some base is available, in case there is more applicants.

 

We have only these 2 applications so far. How about:

 

Dolgorukov - Morgan Transport

Mart - Morgan Mines

 

Morgan Industries and Morgan Interstellar would stay with turnplayer (given to new governors as they arrive).

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Since we haven't had a volunteer for it, I'll take Morgan Interstellar. I am also open to suggestions in my 'governorship'.

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Proposal:

 

In terms of the architecture:

 

-Energy Grid Distribution Monopoly held by a Corporation controlled by private interests

-Decentralized government, each base has its own account in the Energy Grid

-Governors form a Council that can take votes on adjusting Faction Energy Allocations,

-Military is controlled by a federal level government.

-Private military also exists and is composed of the independent units that were available shortly after planetfall. They are controlled and owned by the Corporation that owns the Energy Grid.

 

Governors are not part of the Corporation. Governors may be forced by circumstances to sell their bases to other governors or to the corporation. This is a possibility in case their debt gets out of control. We still need to define how a state of bankruptcy is reached.

 

At the start of the game, the Corporation owned 103 EC of the 110 EC available at start of MY 2101

 

All the bases own the energy income they contribute to the energy grid, unless they are in debt, in which case their income is used to pay down their debt.

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This all sounds good and interesting, Dolgorukov. I wait for more details. :)

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I'd like to experiment with an idea of the corporation being controlled by some players. Once again a democratic process, their vote would be as strong as the share they hold in the corporation.

 

http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2717

 

They have some military units under their control as well, so they could give orders to those.

 

If we get like 4-5 major shareholders, each could have a 20-25% share. They would approve financing rushed-production actions by governors in the event that the governor does not possess the assets to pay for the action. They would effectively be deciding where to invest the energy assets of the corporation.

 

Or alternatively they could elect a CEO to make these kind of decisions

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