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Thread: How are worms, volcanoes and sea-rise correlated to eco-damage?

  1. #1

    Default How are worms, volcanoes and sea-rise correlated to eco-damage?

    I was playing my first game on Transcend, as H'minee (yeah, yeah, I know), and had the following experience.

    1st pop: No worms.
    *built Tree Farms*
    *built Hybrid Forests*
    *built Genejack Factories*
    *built Robotic Assembly Plants, ecodamage starts to creep in again*
    2nd pop: ~40 worms, half a dozen spore launchers, a locust or two, and an effing VOLCANO.

    Presumably, Marr had been generating a ton of ecodamage in the interim. But it makes me wonder - just how are worms, sea rise (which I was never warned about and didn't notice any of) and volcanoes tied to pops? I've heard that after two pops worms start to appear, and that multiple pops in the same turn causes warming, but are there any tables of how many worms appear vs. pop number, or about when the volcanoes start erupting?

    (Still can't get over Planet fighting you with volcanoes. "Heat rash" indeed. )

  2. #2

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    from my present game I guess the number of worms is rising with every pop - global.
    So if someone else gets all the first pops with few worms and you get one again you will have "the next pop in line" so to say. With some more worms.

    It's just a guess. So don't rely on it.

  3. #3

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    Oh, I'd certainly figured out THAT. What I want to know is "at pop 20, how many worms are there" sort of specifics.

  4. #4

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    Use cheatmode - create a base with 20 boreholes, and provide food via condensors. Then just turn over and count worms...

  5. #5

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    So I did that, and after 3 or 4 pops without worms...

    2 worms
    worm + 2 spore launchers
    3 worms + spore launcher + tower
    2 worms + spore launcher + tower
    4 worms + volcano
    2 worms + warming (66m)
    4 worms
    3 worms + spore launcher
    3 worms + 2 spore launchers
    4 worms + spore launcher + tower
    3 worms + 2 spore launchers + tower
    4 worms + 2 spore launchers + warming (266m)
    4 worms + 2 spore launchers
    4 worms + 2 spore launchers
    6 worms + spore launcher
    4 worms + 3 spore launchers
    "Rising dramatically", no worms (square occupied)
    6 worms + 2 spore launchers + warming (533m)
    5 worms + 3 spore launchers
    6 worms + 2 spore launchers + tower
    "Rising dramatically", 2 worms + spore launcher (square occupied)
    2 worms + tower (square occupied, tower was in occupied square)
    "Rising dramatically", 3 worms (square occupied)
    worm + spore launcher (square occupied)
    spore launcher + warming (733m, square occupied)
    no pop (all squares already covered with fungus)
    "Rising dramatically", tower only (square occupied)
    no worms (square occupied)
    "Rising dramatically", 8 worms + 3 spore launchers
    9 worms + 2 spore launchers
    "Rising dramatically", 9 worms + 3 spore launchers
    10 worms + 2 spore launchers
    "Rising dramatically", 10 worms + 2 spore launchers + tower
    11 worms + 2 spore launchers
    "Rising dramatically", 8 worms + 3 spore launchers

    The bits I found rather interesting were:

    1) Contrary to what I'd heard, sea level rise can occur without two pops in the same turn.

    2) Fungal pops don't solely occur in worked squares - some of the squares I was condenser-crawling also got popped.

    3) You can largely suppress the worms from a pop by having a unit in that square, as most of the worms from a pop will arrive in the square being popped and will simply not arrive if there's a unit there. If a tower's set to arrive, though, it can stack on top of your units. As such, if you're trying to raise the CML by building a "worm base", it's a good idea to put units on every square that it's working (the squares being crawled obviously have units on them).

    4) Fungal pops cannot occur if every square being worked or crawled by the base is already covered with fungus. So if you build the Manifold Harmonics and use ecodamage to terraform, you won't have to stop causing ecodamage afterwards - the worm-rape only lasts until everything's covered.

  6. #6

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    It is to notice that worms can occour on tiles with crawlers or other units. I also spotted normal worms and launchers on these occassions. Not only fungal towers.

    Then there are less worms sometime. I don't know exactly why. But it seems to depend of how they are scattered. If there are all the worms on one tile, they tend to be the whole pack. But often they scatter on the popped square and these around. In that case their number seems to be smaller.

    Also the rising sealvl should not only depend on the number of plops but more so on the actual ecodamage done. I got the impression that's a global influence so any ecodamage anywhere done counts. But I may be totally wrong here.

    And last there have not been any locusts during your test. But the true wormrape only begins when they appear.

  7. #7

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    There weren't worms occurring on tiles with units on them. The worms that appeared from a pop on an occupied square were on squares next to the pop - the "main pack" which appears on the popped square was suppressed (apart from the towers).

    I'm not sure I understood you about sea levels - you said that it would depend on ecodamage more than pops, but pops ARE ecodamage... and the AIs certainly weren't adding any to the pile since this was all before 2150. What I had heard before was that global warming was triggered by two pops in the same turn, but there was exactly one pop per turn in this test and a decent chunk of the map was swamped by the end (including the Manifold Nexus).

    There were actually a few locusts around, but they were scattered across the map, not in the pops (a couple of pops later I think I saw one or two, but that was after I gave up keeping track - it got to be too boring to delete every worm).

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic9mushroom View Post
    There weren't worms occurring on tiles with units on them. The worms that appeared from a pop on an occupied square were on squares next to the pop - the "main pack" which appears on the popped square was suppressed (apart from the towers).
    I have seen them in my games. May be it's an SMAC/SMAX thing.

    I'm not sure I understood you about sea levels - you said that it would depend on ecodamage more than pops, but pops ARE ecodamage...
    No they are not. They are just a consequence of ecodamage.
    In the first place ecodamage is produced by bases as nutrients or energy are, but under special circumstences. Commonly a high mineraloutput (>16).
    On a second glance the number of ecodamage a base "produces" is the chance in percent for a funguspop in this base at the beggining of the turn. However ecodamage can exceed 100. The chance for a pop will be 1 then.

    The value of ecodamage a base produces is shown at the left side of the basescreen. I think below trade income.
    The whole theme is very like to global warming in civ2. Earth could handle pollution up to a certain degree and even regenerate slowly if pollution went down. Also solarplants helped to handle higher pollution not only by nullifying the pollution in the base but also by increasing the natural regeneration of the climate.
    In SMAC centauri reservates and alike (NOT treefarms and hybrid forests) seem to do that too. Though they don't help anymore when the warning for rising sealvl already occured.

  9. #9

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    Yes, I know about the number on the bottom left of a base screen. It's the % chance for ecodamage to occur. Why would the actual value of the number matter?

    (And yes, I've played Civ II, though I was never terribly good at it - it was back when I was in primary school.)

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