View Full Version : WPC wiki is live
Alright, our first attempt with Wiki software was a failure as many of you have probably noticed. After some experiments, we found that the software didn't exactly work like we wanted it to, in addition to breaking some additional functionality - which, while possible to fix, didn't create a good impression at all.
Now we've set ourselves up with MediaWiki and can show it to you. Our wiki is available at:
http://www.weplayciv.com/wiki
An important aspect to realize is that you don't need a separate account, the wiki should in fact log you in automatically with your forum account. This is different behaviour from what you might be used to at other wikis.
We'll be applying themes to the wiki later but right now it's the default style, our priority for now is getting some content in. Feel free to experiment with the wiki now, and we'll be looking forward to getting some content organized there.
eastsidebagel
19-05-09, 18:49
Sorry Solver, but I just don't get it. Why do we need a Wiki at all when we just can write the content we wanna contribute inside the normal site sections, instead of doing so on a seperate entity from the original WPC?
The intention of a wiki is to store information that can be updated continuously. Whereas a forum is intended to be a place to discuss such information. We could make a bunch of FAQ threads and sticky them all over the place, but that would just cause the forums to get cluttered with stickied thread, and there'd be no room left for normal threads.
What normal site sections? The wiki is anything but separate, we'll get better integration with the rest of the site soon, but it's actually all one system, notice how it uses the same user accounts. The wiki isn't linked to right now and doesn't link back anywhere either, but we'll sort that integration stuff out. Content wise though, it's the best option to create and organize content.
[...]
Now we've set ourselves up with MediaWiki and can show it to you.
[...]
Do I understand you correctly, that this is the final decision on "wiki software"? Or is this another "wiki" you'd like us to test before making the final decision?
Regarding wiki content (from Quarter to Three forums (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1730362&postcount=15)):
[...] we also want to offer modders other features that could take some of the work for hosting, marketing and organising their mod projects out of their hands and allow them to focus on what they're good at: making mods. I'm talking things like tempate-based mini-websites, blogs, CVS hosting and various promotional tools [...]
If "template-based mini-websites" are still relevant and in development, I am wondering if these mini sites can be used for presenting "archived" material, such as images, interviews, guides, etc. (e.g. for a SMAC/X repository)--or if the wiki should be used. (Or both?)
So are there any tutorials how you actually add stuff to a wiki? I'm a complete noob in such matters, and I don't see any indication how to do that on the wiki page you linked to.
I made my own page :)
http://www.weplayciv.com/wiki/User:Conmcb25
I like it, thanks!
Do I understand you correctly, that this is the final decision on "wiki software"? Or is this another "wiki" you'd like us to test before making the final decision?
Barring something major and unforeseen, this is what we're sticking with. MediaWiki is well supported and known to work, being by far the most popular Wiki software, and it's actually been installed here for a couple of days without breaking anything, which is already a big boost.
If "template-based mini-websites" are still relevant and in development, I am wondering if these mini sites can be used for presenting "archived" material, such as images, interviews, guides, etc. (e.g. for a SMAC/X repository)--or if the wiki should be used. (Or both?)What Locutus was talking about is the creation of separate sites, essentially, for modding teams. Those modding teams that want to use our services can essentially choose to be independent from the main WPC content.
For content like strategy guides and other game-related stuff, we'd like to use the wiki, that's what it is for. We can lock pages so that, say, interviews or complete guides, like Vel's, don't get edited.
So are there any tutorials how you actually add stuff to a wiki? I'm a complete noob in such matters, and I don't see any indication how to do that on the wiki page you linked to.
Good point, we'll need to put that info up. Given that this is the same software as what Wikipedia uses, their intro page introduction page should be helpful, adding / editing content is the same.
Barring something major and unforeseen, this is what we're sticking with. MediaWiki is well supported and known to work, being by far the most popular Wiki software, and it's actually been installed here for a couple of days without breaking anything, which is already a big boost.
That is very good to know. Thank you! My task now is getting to know the software and hopefully add content.
What Locutus was talking about is the creation of separate sites, essentially, for modding teams. Those modding teams that want to use our services can essentially choose to be independent from the main WPC content.
For content like strategy guides and other game-related stuff, we'd like to use the wiki, that's what it is for. We can lock pages so that, say, interviews or complete guides, like Vel's, don't get edited.
[...]
For the wiki, this sounds very, very promising! Thank you for clearing up the issue.
Here, for instance, is the beginning of Vel's guide moved to the wiki, which is fairly straightforward, if a bit mundane to do.
http://www.weplayciv.com/wiki/SMAC:Vel%27s_SMAX_Guide
That's the way we're looking to have on-site content, not just forums with information and nothing outside.
Vel's Guide looks a lot nicer in the wiki!
(And I am glad you changed wiki software.)
Want to move the rest of the guide there? ;)
I'll pass. I'm in the middle of a little friendly dispute between a Help subforum and a Creation subforum! (It's terrible when Jack is gone and I have to pretend to be a moderator.:))
Want to move the rest of the guide there? ;)
I do :scarednod:
I've been reading up on wiki layout and I am still undecided how to go about it. For Vel's guide (in particular), the reader should not be presented with a "wall of text"--and I think images could spice up the experience. Additionally, Velociryx touches on many topics that may deserve their own entries. (Note: I contacted Velociryx on Feb. 5th 2008 about presenting the guide as part of a site, but the project failed due to technical issues. I should PM him again asking for permission to add flavor, though.)
Basically, I would very much like to carefully read the guide again and add references/links as well as flavor images (where it makes sense) and perhaps flavor quotes/comments/etc. It'll take time, though.
Question: I find the black text on white background straining (when I need read a lot). Are themes supposed to offer alternative colors?
Vel's guide is, ultimately, a wall of text. I agree on links to separate entries being needed, but that's what wikis are for, links can easily be added in at any time. Images are less certain, I mean, sure you can add them, but what's the point if they don't actually add content?
What you're talking about is a reworking / editing of the guide anyway, for now I'd be very happy just to get the guide "as-is", in the shape Vel posted it on the forums, over to the Wiki.
We do hope to offer themes for the Wiki too, though I must confess that no color combination really makes reading huge amounts of text comfortable.
Vel's guide is, ultimately, a wall of text. I agree on links to separate entries being needed, but that's what wikis are for, links can easily be added in at any time. Images are less certain, I mean, sure you can add them, but what's the point if they don't actually add content?
What you're talking about is a reworking / editing of the guide anyway, for now I'd be very happy just to get the guide "as-is", in the shape Vel posted it on the forums, over to the Wiki.
We do hope to offer themes for the Wiki too, though I must confess that no color combination really makes reading huge amounts of text comfortable.
This.
Then mess with the Guide adding content over time. Thats the beauty of a wiki, it can be constantly updated, and has a record of who did what, and when.
Vel's guide is, ultimately, a wall of text. I agree on links to separate entries being needed, but that's what wikis are for, links can easily be added in at any time. Images are less certain, I mean, sure you can add them, but what's the point if they don't actually add content?
What you're talking about is a reworking / editing of the guide anyway, for now I'd be very happy just to get the guide "as-is", in the shape Vel posted it on the forums, over to the Wiki.
We do hope to offer themes for the Wiki too, though I must confess that no color combination really makes reading huge amounts of text comfortable.
Aha! If I recall correctly, Velociryx addresses some setups (e.g. terraformer "walls") that may be supported by a visual representation in addition to the text. Information in text AND images do add to accessibility.
I also believe you are incorrect on the "wall of text issue"; the text in question is not a novel or short story, but a guide. Non-text additions may enhance the presentation of information. This may be personal preference, and I would like for Velociryx to have the final say on such matters.
Consider me a potential candidate for the task, be it with or without flavor ;)
Oh, and certain color combinations do make reading huge amounts of text easier on the eyes. Perhaps not comfortable, but definitely easier.
---
Having said that, I've added some placeholder content to the wiki. Seems to me we're starting to rock'n roll!
Metaliturtle
19-05-09, 22:22
I've gotten my user page started up.
Don't get me wrong, Rubin, I certainly won't oppose enriching the guide with illustrations eventually. I'm just saying that the thought should in no way prevent us from getting the current guide up on the Wiki as it currently is. As Con says, it can always be tweaked and improved upon once there.
Don't get me wrong, Rubin, I certainly won't oppose enriching the guide with illustrations eventually. I'm just saying that the thought should in no way prevent us from getting the current guide up on the Wiki as it currently is. As Con says, it can always be tweaked and improved upon once there.
I understand.
...but a guide like Vel's cannot just be a single (scroll-for-twenty-minutes-to-get-to-the-end) page. I am new to wiki entries and don't know how to deal with this particular issue. Do we do a thousand words per page or what? A chapter at a time?
I am sure we'll get this done. No worries.
---
Additional question on wiki compatibility:
Resources like http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=169864 are very useful to me. How do these integrate with the wiki?
(Why is that link messed up?)
I've been thinking about that myself. If you noticed, the SMAC guide wiki page has a table of contents near the start, so that should make navigation possible even if it's one huge-ass page. On the other hand, it could well be split into several pages, there are disadvantages to both methods though. Having it as one page is convenient for when you want to browse the whole guide at once, using the handy chapter links.
The reference materials you link to are dynamically generated, I don't think that would play too well with the wiki. But we definitely want reference material like that available.
Solver, in regards to Vel's guide, I am personally advocating splitting it up for wiki use. The fact that you don't see a "huge-ass" page as a really big issue, should make the conversion easier and be in line with accepted wiki format (at this site, anyway).
The SMAC/X wiki section needs a front page with appropriate wiki links as well.
Great to have some "stuff happening"! The responsibility is ours! :eek:
[Edit] When I try edit Vel's guide I get this:
WARNING: This page is 36 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections.
So, maybe pages should be limited?
Solver, in regards to Vel's guide, I am personally advocating splitting it up for wiki use. The fact that you don't see a "huge-ass" page as a really big issue, should make the conversion easier and be in line with accepted wiki format (at this site, anyway).
The SMAC/X wiki section needs a front page with appropriate wiki links as well.
Great to have some "stuff happening"! The responsibility is ours! :eek:
I think one page with chapters is better myself but if this is the route you want to take then do a main page with links to chapter pages.
Note this is just my opinion and nothing more :)
I think one page with chapters is better myself but if this is the route you want to take then do a main page with links to chapter pages.
Note this is just my opinion and nothing more :)
Do you mean one "index page"? Or one page per chapter? I do not believe anything is set in stone yet; comments and suggestions are very valuable and one should be a fool not to listen to feedback!
Metaliturtle
20-05-09, 00:36
One big long page with links to chapters at the top that way we can ctrl + f our way to victory.
Yes an Index page.
But if you do one page for the whole thing if formated properly (which isn't hard) it automatically generates an index at the beginning.
I believe that's what Solver was referring to in his last post.
Ideally I should be able to search for SMAC Guide in the search bar (or see a link on the main page) and get thee with one click. Having to do additional clicks and going back and forth for each chapter might get a bit annoying.
But if you do want to do a "chapter a page" that could be alleviated by posting a link to the previous chapter at the beginning, and the following chapter at the end.
Im thinking in terms of ease of navigation. One page for the whole product really doesn't bother me as long as we have the index at the beginnning, and you basically get that automatically.
For a quick and dirty example look at my page at a Guild Wars wiki:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Conmcb25
Each character I track can be considered a different chapter, and through formatting, the index is provided at the beginning automatically. Hopefully that's a good illustration.
conmbc25, good information! Each chapter could be presented with a brief synopsis (including tags, keywords) for easy navigation. Either that, or the whole thing in one page. Or?
Metaliturtle, [ctrl]+f through this "thing" is painful. I've tried it. Initially we may want to try a one page approach, though. No problem unless the software complains ;)
If this is getting off-topic, do redirect posts to this thread (http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589).
In time, we should be able to provide some wiki themes to match the forums, as well as some templates for common types of page. Thus we could have a sort of online civilopedia with uniform pages, or we could make sure that all the tutorials follow the same basic layout (thus cutting down on fluff that a newbie will have to learn).
Buster's Uncle
20-05-09, 03:02
Leaving aside, for the moment, issues of attractive presentation, (something that surely is worth considering, mind you,) Vel's guide could surely be enhanced as a text by some illustrations of what he's talking about...
I was about to make my own page on the WPC wiki, but didn't know if I would be beaten and sexually abused. I was scared.
The software isn't particularly picky about that page size. Yeah, it gives a warning, but the wiki software itself and any modern browser can very easily handle such pages. Without images, the total size doesn't even grow *that* large, I don't think Vel's guide would exceed 500 KB by a lot.
I'll still refrain until I actually do something, like upload some files or something. :dunno:
Will the content be wiped clean if/when the decision to keep it should come? Like you guys said about the previous attempt. If so, there's little to no reason to make much effort to the pages we create.
Metaliturtle
20-05-09, 16:57
That's a good point Nikolai, powers that be care to elaboratize?
Nah, there's no reason why we would want to wipe the content now. None of the future planned work, such as adding themes, requires the elimination of content.
Metaliturtle
20-05-09, 17:13
That's good to hear, so in 10 years we can make a case if Solver deletes the wiki...
I get an error when trying to upload a .png image. Page says file uploads are disabled. What do I do?
Also, formatting text using the link in post #8 seems only semi-compatible; as if several formatting options are unavailable (disabled?) in the WPC wiki. However, I need more insight on wiki entries still to be able to address specific needs.
I'll get on the uploads issue.
Several formatting options probably do differ, I don't really know, but the basic ones definitely do work. I've used
==high-level headings==
===lower level headings===
''italic text''
'''bold text'''
I'll get on the uploads issue.
Several formatting options probably do differ, I don't really know, but the basic ones definitely do work. I've used
==high-level headings==
===lower level headings===
''italic text''
'''bold text'''
Yes, the basic ones are fine (even if not behaving intuitively, but that is ok). I am looking for more advanced formatting, but it's too early to go into detail; and if I can use the basic formatting with good results, I should stick to the basics.
:waitingonuploadstobeenabled:
Metaliturtle
20-05-09, 17:23
Yes, the basic ones are fine (even if not behaving intuitively, but that is ok). I am looking for more advanced formatting, but it's too early to go into detail; and if I can use the basic formatting with good results, I should stick to the basics.
:waitingonuploadstobeenabled:
What are you looking to upload btw?
What are you looking to upload btw?
A SMACX "sealurk" image (158x196). I want to use this for testing image display options combined with text formatting for better presentation of information.
Metaliturtle
20-05-09, 17:30
O I C
The 9 chapters of Vel's guide are now a wall of text in our wiki. The "how-to" section (post #80+ in the guide thread) and bonus essays may deserve their own pages (but I can add them to the existing page, of course).
I've messed with some formatting in the first chapter and only marked the chapter headings in the subsequent chapters (for much easier navigation while editing).
I still cannot upload images ;)
Uploads should now be a go.
Uploads should now be a go.
Seems to be working! Thank you!
Been away for a spell (more health issues. :( ), but back now and it looks like I've missed quite a bit.
GREAT work on the wiki, and I think the illustrations really add something. I'm about as graphically talented as a mayfly, so I'm afraid I can offer little in the way of assistance where that stuff is concerned, but I can keep heaping praise on you guys who are doing the good work of bringing the guide to life in this dynamic new format and will full color to boot!
That's great stuff! :)
-=Vel=-
The first chapter of Vel's guide should now be complete with flavor images and formatting. There are not many reference links yet as I have no idea on the general link structure. In particular, the first chapter illustrates how I envision flavor additions.
I am still contemplating flavor quotes (not the SMAC/X quotes, but rather player comments).
This is my first ever attempt at wiki entries, and I am very interested in suggestions on how to improve the article presentation.
One note. The articles may well be read by people who have never played the game they apply to. Right now, for instance the Nwabudike Morgan article makes little sense for non-SMAC players. For that reason, it's often a good idea to open the article with a sentence or two that has general info. For instance, for Morgan's article I'd open with "In Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, Nwabudike Morgan is the leader of the Morganite faction".
An alternative is to use category templates. You can tag all the faction leader pages as "Faction Leader", and we can make the wiki auto-magically link to the other leaders and also provide an explanatory heading (all the pages marked "SMAC/X Faction Leader" must be about SMAC/X Faction Leaders, for example).
I'll look into how to do that and get back to you shortly.
One note. The articles may well be read by people who have never played the game they apply to. Right now, for instance the Nwabudike Morgan article makes little sense for non-SMAC players. For that reason, it's often a good idea to open the article with a sentence or two that has general info. For instance, for Morgan's article I'd open with "In Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, Nwabudike Morgan is the leader of the Morganite faction".
Yes, this makes perfect sense to me. However, this kind of information is really, really difficult for me to convey. It may be very easy for others, but for me it becomes a nightmare. Basically, I'm not good at that.
Maybe a top info box on every SMAC/X page saying something like: "This is part of the Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri wiki section." And just leave it at that (much like a disclaimer).
However, this kind of information is really, really difficult for me to convey. It may be very easy for others, but for me it becomes a nightmare. Basically, I'm not good at that.
Just like creating Sid's Tips is for me. :D
Metaliturtle
21-05-09, 18:39
I like MMC's suggestion
I definitely like the category template thought... Wikipedia does something similar, I think. If MMC can find out how that's done, he'll get even more thanks ;)
Metaliturtle
21-05-09, 18:53
and this +1 will be for him
:D
I'm very tempted to take all your brocs away and fry them :p
Metaliturtle
21-05-09, 19:12
I'm very tempted to take all your brocs away and fry them :p
No thank you kind sir! :D
I shall be good :cheers:
I'm very tempted to take all your brocs away and fry them :p
Or you could just take away the dancing broccoli smilie!
I was spending some time on the bus thinking how to use the wiki.
In terms of an AC Help forum, I was thinking that when people ask installation questions, we provide a link to the appropriate wiki entry. If there is no appropriate wiki entry, we create one or edit an existing one and then provide a link to the new or updated entry.
And we provide a pointer to the appropriate wiki section in the welcome thread. So someone seeking help could immediately consult the wiki (which if we do the links properly, will be a lot friendlier than reading through an old thread) and if they can't find what they are looking for, they can post a question.
For the AC MP forum, I was thinking about using the wiki to list all SMAC games here, 'poly, CFC and anywhere else we know of, including players and CMN. We could include active player profile information.
Are there any tutorials or a reference for the wiki?
Solver posted a kind of tutorial here (http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18900&postcount=8).
My personal advice would be to just dive into it. If you have SMAC/X related wiki questions (that is, anything relating to your SMAC/X wiki entries--even if the specific question is not about SMAC/X at all) please do a new thread in the SMAC/X forums or ask in the repository thread. We'll get this done.
Perhaps a separate wiki help forum should be opened temporarily? Perhaps MMC can help?
Given that this is the same software as what Wikipedia uses, their intro page introduction page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction_2) should be helpful, adding / editing content is the same.
Maybe MMC can open a wiki help page!
Maybe MMC can open a wiki help page!
Maybe MMC can do a set of templates for us?
Maybe MMC can do a set of templates for us?
I'm sure MMC will be willing to work with us.
For the record, Vel's SMAX Guide is now categorised, and uses two templates (at the start).
Those templates can be updated, they're just placeholders for now. And just like any other wiki page, more templates and categories can be created when needed.
Metaliturtle
22-05-09, 17:39
MMC welcome to being the wikislave :D
For the record, Vel's SMAX Guide is now categorised, and uses two templates (at the start).
Those templates can be updated, they're just placeholders for now. And just like any other wiki page, more templates and categories can be created when needed.
Are the "wiki" tags ready for forum use?
And I am sure a lot of nice stuff can be created and used--if I only knew how to...
Excellent work on the SMACX section of the wiki Rubin and MMC :b:
Its great stuff :clap:
Yep, brilliant work guys :b:
Are the "wiki" tags ready for forum use?
It's good to go, I'm gonna keep looking for a better version of the link preview popup code, but it otherwise works as well as it's going to.
And I am sure a lot of nice stuff can be created and used--if I only knew how to...
For starters, Wikipedia's Help section is very comprehensive. If you find something there that doesn't work here, then we can probably add it.
Perhaps in your travels you could build up our own help pages?
Also, I'm sure those of us with more knowledge would be willing to answer any specific questions you have, and if you find our answers sufficient, you could include them in the wiki help section.
For starters, Wikipedia's Help section is very comprehensive.
How about a link?
Well... the obvious place to start would probably have to be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
particularly the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia section.
Plus there's the cheatsheet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet
Well... the obvious place to start would probably have to be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
particularly the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia section.
Plus there's the cheatsheet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet
Thanks!
How about the nonobvious place?:)
How about the nonobvious place?:)
Among others, that would probably be here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Link#Subpage_feature or perhaps here: http://jimgroom.org/bavawiki/index.php?title=MediaWiki_Tutorial
For starters, Wikipedia's Help section is very comprehensive. If you find something there that doesn't work here, then we can probably add it.
Perhaps in your travels you could build up our own help pages?
Also, I'm sure those of us with more knowledge would be willing to answer any specific questions you have, and if you find our answers sufficient, you could include them in the wiki help section.
It is too early for me to addess specific requests. I have a lot of the basics to learn still.
I have a small request:
Can we have a stamp saying something like "Under construction" or something similar for the pages currently in the "conversion process"?
An ignorant question:
How can I go to the wiki, please?
My thanks in advance.
There is a link at the top of the page, or you can try replacing the word 'forums' in the address bar with the word 'wiki' like thus:
www.weplayciv.com/wiki/
I have a small request:
Can we have a stamp saying something like "Under construction" or something similar for the pages currently in the "conversion process"?
Find me a decent pic of, say, a worker and I'll do it... :p:
Find me a decent pic of, say, a worker and I'll do it... :p:
Heh, thank you! For the time being, maybe do a placeholder image (leave it un-uploaded and do not specify dimensions, I can upload one later. Name could be "underconstruction.png").
Also, can you make the stamp stretch the whole width of the page?
Text could be "This page is currently under significant revision" or maybe just make up something smart ;)
All I need is the code to place the stamp.
Think this may work?
Jack Hawksmoor
01-06-09, 18:25
Make me a stamp :p : I'll provide you with the image.
Here's an image. Please use the zipped version.
Find me a decent pic of, say, a worker and I'll do it... :p:
Here's an image. Please use the zipped version.
Any updates on this, MMC? Or did I miss a post somewhere else?
Jack Hawksmoor
10-06-09, 11:26
MMC has not been around for a while... I am sure it is on his to-do list.
MMC has not been around for a while... I am sure it is on his to-do list.
Thank you for the update, Jack Hawksmoor.
MMC has not been around for a while... I am sure it is on his to-do list.
Indeed. I was away for a long weekend, for reasons that should be obvious :p:
On my to-do list of about 200 items, I can say it's around the #25 mark.
Any updates, MMC? Still item #25?
Edit: Oh well, had a go at making templates and did a crude "Underconstruction" stamp. The template coding is probably horrible, but the stamp is useful.
To use the stamp use:
{{Underconstruction}}
can't find the link to the wiki anymore..
Originally Posted by Dale
Yes sorry we have a bit of a problem with the wiki. We're still working on that.
OK, thanks.
Petek
sorry. never mind
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