Rome: total war+ExRM mod = excellent

[El_Cid]

Rome Total War in the shape of the 'Rome Total War: Anthology' bundle(includes Rome and the Barbarian Invaision and Alexander expansions), is the last of the total war series i have tried out. I came to it late as i didnt like the early reports of the siege bug that took forever to get fixed and i wasn't 100% convinced the switch to full 3D was going to improve the strategy of the game.

Well anyway this thread is going to be about the game plus an excellent(if not quite finished) mod called ExRM(Extended Realism Mod).

ExRM takes another great mod called RTR(rome total realism) and expands on it introducing a whole bunch of fan made additions that really show what a dedicated and educated team can do to a mere game. I would say that ExRM is to Rome Total War like Fall from Heaven II is to CivIV. It is that good a mod, even unfinished.

The best way to get the info on what exactly ExRM adds to Rome:TW is to head over to the site to download the mod:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=766

get the easy installer from this thread:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189465

follow the install instructions and then explore inside your Rome:TW directory to find the folder called ExRM; inside you should find lots of readme's and a handy pdf guide that will give the bulk of the detail.

I played around with a couple of games of vanilla Rome and Barbarian Invaision, and they were fine, but it is quite amazing the difference this mod makes - it almost becomes an rpg, in the same way family line is important in Crusader Kings, you get that here. A huge effort has gone into remodelling most of the units, new skins(historicaly accurate!) and units and the whole game is a lot tougher to steamroll( a common flaw in Total War games in general). I'm thoroughly enjoying my campaign as the Romans, and am looking forward to playing some of the other factions(Greeks and Britons mostly) later on.

CTD's: Note the mod is not finished and the main guy(Quinn Inuit) who took over the mod from Candelarius is currently not around, and there are a few CTD type bugs still in the game.

Check the sticked Bug Report thread, over on the twcenter forum linked above, for details on these, but basicaly they seem to boil down to not right clicking on certain buildings in the build queue(Roman Citizenship is the main one), and before you end your turn zoom out to the maximum distance from the game world. I've got rid of the CTD's i had been having doing this.

Later i may go into some strategy and post some pics, but this is to get the ball rolling and see if other here are familiar with this game and mod. And the EU Rome thread prompted me to go all roman on your asses too ;)

Ave

[Unorthodox]

I still have RTW vanilla somewhere...

I enjoyed the RTR mod, so what improvements does this one make to that?

[El_Cid]

i'm not sure myself, being new to the whole thing(Rome Total War as well!), but this thread seems to cover the main additions, and there are other threads there that might discuss it all also:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=179726

At first i was looking at RTR(Platinum) as the main mod, then i kind of stumbled into the ExRM mod by accident, and as i like 'realistic'(well detailed and complex to be exact) gaming it won me over.

I've been fighting a war of attrition with the Iberian's(spain), Illyians(yugoslavic region) and the Greeks. So basicaly i've been at war on all sides!

Compared to vanilla it is quite difficult to expand quickly. I like the concept(and 90% in game execution, i think it could do with another level of build) of Auxilia buildings to represent the conversion of a foriegn cultures town to roman culture/acceptence. You cant build/replace troops in taken towns(if from different culture) for a good long while and have to first build these Auxilia buildings that help slowly convert them to Roman ways.

So that means you have to create centres of war in your native towns to supply the core of your legion(as in real life roman times) and use mercenries or native troop types as auxileries in those newly conqured and pacified(via the auxilia) towns. It makes waging war quite tactical in terms of troop supply etc.

but yeah check out that thread above for the main details, i'm not sure if a huge amount has changed compared to normal RTR?

[El_Cid]

At ExRM game start, in the main campaign you have these 20 factions to play as:

Rome
Galatia
Britons
Epirus
Macedon
Ptolemaic
Seleucid
Carthage
Parthia
Pontus
Gaul
Germans
Illyrians
Armenia
Thracians
Greek City States
Numidia
Sarmatians
Iberians
Bactria

A nice selection and the game map has been extended beyond normal Rome Total War to make playing as some of these factions more fun.

I decided to go with Rome as my first game, game start is circa 280BC and i'm currently on 233BC(so 188 turns, each year is now 4 seasons instead of 2 in vanilla RTW).

On the screenshot i got Iberians(in brown) to the west(and north west) of me, i'm at war with them currently.
Directly to the north(in blue) are the Illyrians, i've been at war with them for a long while now, and have taken all their coastal towns, pushing them north into the wilderness.
The most powerfull faction is currently the Seleucid(large grey block) but they are across the sea and to the far east and south of me, so no threat right now.
I'm Allied with the Sarmatians(yellow block) and the Thracians(sort of light/bright green) are under their control, so my eastern borders are safe. I created a small barbarian state to buffer me from the Greeks to my south east and i think Carthage(white) has been pushed out of Africa by Numidia(slate grey/blue), i just havent updated my map via trade or exploration yet down there.

Overall it is very dicey, the Iberians and Illyrians have been taking up alot of my troops and the small gains i've made recently have cost alot of troops. Still neither faction is a real threat to me currently, more a nuisance that needs an answer.

My big worry is the vast Seleucid empire i think they have just completed the conquest of the Bactrians(orange) to the east(someone killed them) - so possibly all that eastern land is now grey also. on the comparitive power chart the Seleucid empire is clearly ahead, about 3 times my level and i'm generaly in second place. It's going to be a desperate battle when they turn their attention westward!!!

[Metaliturtle]

This post inspired me to bust out my RTW disks. I haven't played these since college.

[El_Cid]

well i'm just sad EU Rome seemed a little dissapointing, and your thread inspired me to do my roman thing :)

To Play ExRM you need Rome:Total War patched to 1.5(that is the latest patch), and Barbarian Invaision patched to 1.6(again latest patch).

I found that on the Anthology pack the BI disk downgrades your Rome TW install from 1.5 to 1.3 - so i needed to install all three games in that pack(Alexander expansion as well) to allow me to run the ExRM mod. If you have BI i would seriously look to install and play ExRM over vanilla RTW, it really adds lots of historical realism and makes the game much more challanging(if a little unstable with the odd CTD - that can mostly be worked around).

In that game above the Seleucid(modern day Turkey, kind of) swarmed out of the east and i knew i couldn't win against them, losing all my fleets and two of my main armies(out of three!). So i started over, and now am in a new Roman campaign, with a better understanding on the ExRM rules and additions, especialy the way it handles armies and military promotions of generals(it's very rpgish, and cool!). But yeah it's a great mod and i'll go into more detail on playing it later on. Join the fun if you can :)

[Metaliturtle]

I have BI but not Alexander, will it still work for me? I couldn't tell from looking at twcenter

[El_Cid]

It possibly depends on the version of BI you have, there seems to be two versions, one that doesnt downgrade RTW to 1.3 and one that does.

The only way i knew the BI in the Anthology pack downgraded me to RomeTW 1.3(from 1.5), was because the ExRM mod wasn't working properly, i had vanilla RomeTW starting factions(the three Roman ones, Julii/Skipii/Brutii) and not the 20 odd i listed above.

I would go get the RomeTW 1.5 patch and the BI 1.6 patch(from the official TW forums) just to be on the safe side:

http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?page=/en/support/supportrome.html&nav=/en/7/3/

scroll down that page a little to get the ones you may need. The way to tell is to first install RomeTW, then go into the options menu; it should say on the top of the screen(v1.3/v1.5 etc), then apply the 1.5 patch if you need it.

Then install BI and do the same, look for the version in the options menu and install 1.6 patch if needed.

Then install ExRM as per instructions in the thread i gave for the easy installer.

In my case the RomeTW DVD in the anthology pack was already at 1.5 and then when i installed BI it said 1.6 - so it should have been ok, but there is a certain version of BI that first downgrades RomeTW to 1.3 before patching to B.I's 1.6. That caught me out a little and i had to post for some help at the twcenter forums. I then completely reinstalled, including Alexander this time and everything went ok. But you dont need Alexander to play this mod, just RomeTW+BI and the right patches.

let us know how you go :)

[Metaliturtle]

so I'll try installing the original game. Patch to v 1.5, install BI, patch to 1.6, then download the ExRM mod.

[Metaliturtle]

ExRM mod being downloaded now

[Metaliturtle]

Well an hour and a few minutes later, it's time to play!

[El_Cid]

You should know it has all installed properly because the starting screen will say Rome ExRM and when you choose to play a campaign you get those 20 starting factions i listed. If you get that it's good to go :)

It's a much tougher game now, so stick to the default 'medium' difficulty for your first few games. I thought playing as Rome was tough, but playing as the Britons is even harder!

[Metaliturtle]

well 1 day later and I've thrashed Western Europe with ze Germans

[El_Cid]

Ok so is that Gaul+Briton? what about Rome/Samartians - have you bumped into them yet?

I miss-installed ExRM twice, it turns out - so yesterday i did a complete re-install and manualy set the mod to install into my RomeTW directory(ExRM defaults to use 'Activision\' as part of the path, but the Anthology edition i'm using is published by sega, so when i simply changed the C: path to D:(where my games are) it didnt install right at first, and i didnt get the 'Rome: Extend Realism 3.4' title screen.

then on the second install i think the patch process from that Anthology pack downgrades RomeTW to 1.3(you need 1.5 for ExRM to work) when you install BI and even though after BI it will report the version as 1.6, the downgrade of romeTW to 1.3 creates some problems(the routs of my CTD's possibly?).

Anyway it appears to be installed correctly now, i'm not getting what had been a 100% reproducable bug by right clicking on the 'Roman Citizenship' building(i think it was that one?), so i'm back to playing the romans in a new game.

It will be interesting in your game if you can use your mass to good effect against the better tech armies of the mediteranian? Or maybe the barbarian hordes will stream south and crush early civilisation? :D

[Metaliturtle]

I've modded a few German-only units' stats. My General's bodyguard could probably take Rome on it's own if I wanted it to.

[El_Cid]

well..........dont complain it's too easy ;) are you going to play it out to the end?
If you play another game try the Romans as much of the 'new' stuff has been implimented with their faction(realistic military promotions/unit types etc), and even though i'm 'anti' roman(the celt genes in me!), i'm enjoying playing them in this mod. it's a much better TW game than Medieval i'm finding.

[Metaliturtle]

I just don't like micromanaging my builds in TW games. Plus it's more fun to make obviously poor tactical decisions and miraculously win. Sort of my Spearman beats Tank type joy.

[El_Cid]

"Extended Realism mod" based of "Rome Total Realism mod" - aim to make the game much more realistic ;)

lol - you is crazy metaliturtle :D

I really like the roman promotion system they have added. basicaly once a family character has finished their education(at 20years) they are then ready to join the Roman army, either as the head of it or better under a more experienced commander. They take the title of tribune. Now if you keep them in the army for 5 years then put them back in a city for a turn, then back in the army they get a promotion(you have to remove them from an army to get the promotions - i guess to simulate some kind of graduation/promotion event in a city?). Keep them in an army for 10 years and they get another promotion(to Legate if i remember correctly) etc. All these promotions add bonuses to their reputations and skills etc. It quite a complex system and it took me a few goes to get the hang of it.

At game start i make sure i have two commanders in the field, making sure they have atleast one unit of roman infantry under their command(it wont work with mercenry of non roman-core troops) so they gain experience. Then as you build these two armies they will gain the banners of 'Legion I' and 'Legion II' which confers a moral boost to troops in these armies. You can have more, but it becomes difficult financialy to have too many armies and two 'Legions' seems to work quite well.

there are lots of little details like this that you can miss, but are all part of the extra 'realism' the modders have aimed for. I love the unit graphics as well, they have done a great job on remoddeling actuall era troop types(for the romans mostly) - the 'barbs' still get slightly wierd troops(germans get 'wailing women', which is kind of based on the celtic tradition of women also being warriors(but that was quite rare), but more on the tradition of the women going with the men to the battle to stand at the back and shout encouragement and also to chastise them if they were fighting poorly - kind of like cheerleaders i gues? but a bit more serious!), but the Romans have been completely remoddelled along historic lines.

If you want to be able to carry on building the italic troops types(so the 'other' troop types used in the various italian provinces before 'romanisation') dont build more than an 'Auxilia I' building, at level II the conversion process to roman-core troop types takes place(these are better stats wise), so you loose some nice looking units.

Ave. ;)

[Mr. Scruffy]

What would motivate a warrior more to stay in the field than his nagging wife waiting for him at the camp in the rear?

-´Did you win?´

-´Yeah, we won.´

-´Good for you. How many did you kill?´

-´Seven.´

-´What?! Only seven?! Frederick (the husband of Gertilde) killed nine! And wounded twelf!´

-´I wounded 15.´

-´Yeah... Wounding people is all you can do - like you never finish anything off properly anyways...´

- :rollingeyes:

[El_Cid]

Exactly :)

the roman historian Tacitus(well you could also call him romes PR guy) describes celtic women going into battle alongside the men but they performed more as auxileries(tending the wounded etc) and also in this 'cheerleading' mode. They would describe how they were bound to be raped by the romans if their men lost the battle, and how their children would be killed, and also mocking any men that attempted to flee the battle, making remarks about their 'manhood' and size of 'balls' etc. It was quite an effective method of motivation, and in part explains why many of these roman vs european 'barbarian' battles ended in such bloodshed and massive losses(on both sides, but mostly on the sides of the 'celts' - they just didn't have the tech or tactical skills of the romans).

I personaly can't think of anything more motivating than knowing if the battle is lost my partner will have a terrible time, but then i like her!! ;)

oh this isn't modelled in ExRM btw, just in case it was confusing - i just like the history of this period, and wanted to share :)

[Metaliturtle]

When I first had this game I modded in 'screamin_wimminz' they were a very effective missle troop that inspired fear in the enemy armies.

[Mr. Scruffy]

´If they win this battle, 10 romans are gonna rape me !´

´Yeah, i know you want us to loose, now...´

[El_Cid]

"And dont get me started on how much they are going to mess the house up!!"

;)

[Metaliturtle]

I'm sort of surprised the Germans didn't just shave their beards and defect to Rome. Sure they would be slaves or plebians at best, but their children would be able to be citizens and the screamin' wimminz' could become 'spoils of war'

Roman Officer about his new slave woman: "Mine screams a lot but at least I don't know what she's telling me... I hope she doesn't have a disease"

[El_Cid]

I think it was the 'flamming pigs' unit/weapon that disturbed me most about RTW when it was first mentioned, i kind of gave up hope on the series and stuck with MedievalTW(the first one) for the next 5 years or so(some great mods for that also btw).

Ok i believe pigs covered in tar and set alight had been used in one battle to try to counteract the effectiveness of war elephants, but it wasnt a common tactic as far as i know, and well it just warned me that maybe the series was going to start dumbing down....and eventualy end up on console ;)

I'm really enjoying my current game as Rome - i'm just about to finish of the Epirus, Apollonia(thier capitol city) is about to fall. After that i'm not sure. to the north are the gauls and i could head north out of Apollonia to take the rich lands held by the Illyrians(lots of gold mines there)? But i suspect at some point i will be fighting a war on two fronts and i cant really afford the armies for that?

I could head down into Sicily and take on the rebel cities maybe? i need to build up my infrastructure and income to be able to field the three Legions i probably need. At the momment i can afford one good one, so a war to the north+south isn't desirable. fun :)

[Metaliturtle]

Take the rebel cities in Sicily they will be easily defensible and you can focus more on cash-producing improvements in those cities with a token town watch. Then go after the Illyrians. The Gauls, Germans, and Britons all fight each other but the Illyrians will be relatively unmolested, giving them richer cities to take and a stronger base when you go after the northern rabble.

[El_Cid]

good idea - sadly on my way to start the conquest of sicily Greece declared war on me and somehow they have taken out the macedonians so are in a stronger position than me economicaly and militarily. LegionI had to go back to defend Apollonia. My 5star general wants vengence for this back stabbing(we had trade and exchanged maps).

[El_Cid]

The First Greco-Roman War:

And so it begins, Legion I is in place and poised to strike. The strategy for this whole campaign will be to take the Greek towns and raise them to the ground(this involves using 'exterminate population' when taking each city(yeah nasty) and then manualy destroying all the infrastructure i can(for cash), then taxing the city massively and leaving empty to revolt).

This will generate as much money from them as possible. This will be pay-back for the unprovoked attack on me, and as they are slightly more powerfull than me in all areas, will weaken them for the future.

[Metaliturtle]

Take 'em as slaves, it'll grow your home cities and still deplete their population somewhat. If they revolt, enslave more of 'em. I agree with selling all the buildings, good play that. :b: maybe keep roads so your recapturing legion can save some badly needed movement points.

[El_Cid]

oh i dont want to keep these towns, the main aim is to create a buffer zone(from the Selucids' mainly) of rebel towns. At this stage most rebel armies that are generated for towns are big and have atleast 'armoury' level improvement. They are non expansionist unlike the AI nations, so i can feel safe with them as my neigbours. Also the AI factions will weaken themselves taking them, and the Selucids need all the weakening they can get!!

below is an update of my first foray into greek lands. I pushed along the northern most border of greece taking three cities(Theselonika,Philipi+Pella) and pillaging it down to the minimum(you cant remove roads, or walls even! plus some other buildings). Now i have three rebel cities for the AI to chew on and can move on with Legion I to the next target.

to the south my 'special-forces'(assassins) have been working to destroy buildings like the 'Armoury' and other military based buildings to stop the greeks being able to field better armies. They mostly rebuild as quick as i destroy, but it all helps reduce their resource base.

[El_Cid]

well i crushed the greeks with my scorched earth tactics, then the Gauls had a go at my northern towns, so i stopped my war with the greeks(they wouldn't accept peace, but had no means to get back at me) and took my army north. Then i noticed the Selucid empire was hugely strong and came sweeping in to pick of the weak greek cities. War eventualy broke out with them and i lost.

I've been a bit mod-tastic since, trying to restore some balance to the big headstart the Selucids have and generaly balancing up a few things and trying stuff out. So i have a new game going as the Britions and will continue to mod a bit and test stuff out.

[Metaliturtle]

Britons are nice because they are difficult to access with relatively weak neighbors. You'll definitely want to enslave some populaces to grow your main cities.

[El_Cid]

The more i'm playing the more i'm finding stuff i want to change :( The resource model isn't quite on the money, and i think this mod is definately for playing as the Romans, that is where most of the effort has gone(and is very fun).

So i'm chaning stuff, messing stuff up, re-installing, changing stuff again and not getting much playing done. I think there is also a big flaw in the AI of the game(rather than the mod), in terms of how it choses targets and notices threats.

Makes me want to get back to designing my game and is helping me work out a few aspects i hadn't fully devloped yet. That is part of the fun of modding for me, it allows me to mess around with the design and try stuff out and also see where mistakes have been made that i should avoid :)

I was quite dissapointed with the Alexander expansion - it looks like they didnt spend much time or effort with it in comparison to the BI expansion.